New pilot

s.lang · Sep 23, 2009, 07:58 PM

What's up folks, first post here, but have done tons of reading!

OK, so I've been into it for about 3 weeks now. I have a Piper Super Cub LP for flying in larger areas, and an Ember 2 for flying in the cul-de-sac in front of my house.

I learned the wind lesson rather early with the Cub....took off, and the plane immediately blew over, landing harmlessly on the grass. Not being smart enough to call it quits, I took off again. The plane got airborne, and it became painfully obvious there was too much wind. I mean, it was flying....it just wasn't making forward progress...LOL. So I turned it, and was forced to land with the wind. It actually came down looking fine, then a gust took it sideways, when it was about 4 feet off the ground (looking fine), right into a volleyball pole, snapping the wing off.

Nice thing about these planes is their ability to be repaired with 5 minute epoxy....

I have flown the plane, with repaired wing, about 10 times since then, with no issues, and no more crashes. I can do most of the things the plane can do, including loop (4 year old daughter loves those). I'm not yet comfortable with landing it exactly where I want to land it...I bring it down, and whatever trajectory it's on, is how it lands (into the wind, though). So I'm working on approaches, now that I have the landing flare down.

I find the Ember 2 to be a great learning tool, especially for the flying toward / flying away aspect. Small, light, all the principles the same as the Cub, but I can do it whenever I want as long as the wind is right, without having to get in the truck to a local park, only to find soccer practice is going on.

So...any tips on good, consistent landing approaches? I think it's a mental issue, I just need to trust myself that I can get the plane to line up consistently and get the approach right. It doesn't help that most times I'm landing on grass, where even the most perfect landing nearly always results in the plane landing softly on its' nose, tail up.

Xpress.. · Sep 23, 2009, 08:13 PM

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1115446

s.lang · Sep 23, 2009, 11:48 PM

Thanks, I did review that thread too. I used a lot of the advice and am happy to say that when I flew this afternoon after work, it was GREAT. I was assisted by absolute dead calm (rare near the ocean where I live).

Nevertheless, I was able to practice multiple appproaches, flying in over grass to an asphalt playground. My only incident out of probably 10 landings was once misjudging the drop in, and I JUST caught the last 6" of grass before touchdown on the asphalt, which flipped the plane, but no harm done. The rest were pretty good landings. It was a bit stressful as I had to land between basketball poles about 30 feet apart. I know that's miles to an experienced pilot, but it felt like inches to me!

The advice really helped, thanks.

Xpress.. · Sep 24, 2009, 02:38 AM

Yep, just keep the practice up

init4fun · Sep 24, 2009, 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by s.lang

Thanks, I did review that thread too. I used a lot of the advice and am happy to say that when I flew this afternoon after work, it was GREAT. I was assisted by absolute dead calm (rare near the ocean where I live).

Nevertheless, I was able to practice multiple appproaches, flying in over grass to an asphalt playground. My only incident out of probably 10 landings was once misjudging the drop in, and I JUST caught the last 6" of grass before touchdown on the asphalt, which flipped the plane, but no harm done. The rest were pretty good landings. It was a bit stressful as I had to land between basketball poles about 30 feet apart. I know that's miles to an experienced pilot, but it felt like inches to me!

The advice really helped, thanks.

Hi s.lang , the super cub is a great plane to learn on {a little underpowered for windy flying but dealable with} . I saw you mentioned gluing the wing , which works fine for the first few repairs , but can end up making the wing kinda heavy if you crash a lot . Do you know that every part of that plane is available for separate purchase ? For instance the wing is $20. which can be a lifesaver after the fourth or fifth repair has made the original wing heavy as a brick . Best of Luck to You and Happy Flying

s.lang · Sep 24, 2009, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by init4fun

Hi s.lang , the super cub is a great plane to learn on {a little underpowered for windy flying but dealable with} . I saw you mentioned gluing the wing , which works fine for the first few repairs , but can end up making the wing kinda heavy if you crash a lot . Do you know that every part of that plane is available for separate purchase ? For instance the wing is $20. which can be a lifesaver after the fourth or fifth repair has made the original wing heavy as a brick . Best of Luck to You and Happy Flying

Yep, thanks. The wing's only $18.00 at my LHS. I've only had the one damage incident, the rest of them have just been superficial. The repair barely affected the balance and didn't affect the flight characteristics at all. I have replaced the cowl as it seems to crack by just being looked at, same with those little fairings that are rubber-banded to the landing gear (I ended up just tossing those).

I took advantage of last night's calm winds to the fullest....10 or so takeoffs/landings with the Cub, then when I got home, probably 4 batteries worth of flights on the Ember 2......I'm really starting to get comfortable.

One thing I didn't mention in the first post. A few weeks back, I mistakenly bought a Parkzone Corsair as my first plane (the LHS did give a semi-weak warning, in their defense...LOL). While putting it together, reading the manual, and looking at the ailerons, I realized quickly this was NOT going to end well as my first plane. So I parked it in my workshop (although a more experienced neighbor has now flown it successfully), went back to the LHS and got the Cub. A week later, I got the Ember.

I'm wondering when I'll feel comfortable soloing the Corsair now? My neighbor thinks I'm catching on pretty fast, and thinks it'll be soon. He insists I'll prefer the characteristics of the aileron-equipped Corsair over the elevator/rudder-controlled Cub.

Maybe this weekend, but I'd like to have my neighbor there to handle takeoffs and landings at first. That Corsair is visibly much less stable than the Cub in those two situations!

Leo L · Sep 24, 2009, 12:58 PM

Yes, the Corsair is definitely more difficult to take-off and land than the SuperCub. Its generally considered to be a good THIRD plane, once you have mastered ailerons. However, since you have the huge benefit of having an experienced flyer available to help you, you should do OK. Make sure that the transmiter is set to low rates. Let him take off and get the Corsair to at least 150ft., then have you take over. The plane will respond to your inputs almost immediatley, while the SC has a certain amount of lag. With the SC, once you started a turn, if you want to continue the turn you keep the stick at the turn position. With the Corsair, once you are in a turn, if you keep the stick at that position it will continue to roll until its upside-down. If you want to continue the turn you need to return the stick to neutral. With the SC, if you want to end the turn, you return the stick to neutral. With the Corsair, if you want to end the turn, you need to push the stick in the opposite direction to get it to roll to level. With the SC, if you let go of the controls completely, it will level out and glide gently to earth. With the Corsair, if you let go of the controls completely, it will roll over and lawn-dart.

Now that I probably scared you, don't spend time overthinking. Your natural reactions will allow you to make the needed corrections. The biggest issue is that with the Corsair (as well as most 4 channel planes) you need to constantly watch the plane and adjust its flight; there is no relaxation period while the plane is flying. With a 3 channel high wing like the SC, you can set it to level flight, then trim a slight turn and set the transmitter on the ground, letting the plane do gentle circles overhead while you relax.

s.lang · Sep 24, 2009, 01:10 PM

Thanks Leo.

One thing I've been working on with the Cub is "mixing" the inputs of rudder and elevator in my turns, as I'll need that experience with the aileron-equipped Corsair in order to turn it. Your advice about the differences in the two planes - where the SC naturally returns to level flight by no input, and the Corsair needs to be "told" to go back to level flight, will be heeded.

As far as being comfortable or relaxing.....I'm not there yet with the SC, so maybe I should start flying the Corsair now, as I'm accustomed to being uncomfortable and tense right now!! LOL!

EDIT: One question on first flying the Corsair....should I initially use only rudder and elevator since it's equipped with both, and ignore ailerons? I'm thinking no, because while the SC has both elevator and rudder on the right stick (left "stick" is just a throttle slider), the Corsair has elevator and aileron on the right stick, with throttle and rudder on the left stick. I assume then that rudder is really used only for landing and takeoff (at least initially)?

init4fun · Sep 24, 2009, 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by s.lang

One question on first flying the Corsair....should I initially use only rudder and elevator since it's equipped with both, and ignore ailerons? I'm thinking no, because while the SC has both elevator and rudder on the right stick (left "stick" is just a throttle slider), the Corsair has elevator and aileron on the right stick, with throttle and rudder on the left stick. I assume then that rudder is really used only for landing and takeoff (at least initially)?

Hi s.lang , You very well may find that you need to coordinate BOTH the rudder and ailerons for your Corsair to make proper turns . Some designs are easier than others to get away with rudder only steering , or aileron only steering , but the Corsair aint one of them !!! Thats one of the primary reasons its reccomended as a second aileron plane {you need a good amount of pratice to coordinate rudder , ailerons , and dont forget elevator , all at the same time} . After you get bored with the cub it would probablly be best to look into an aileron trainer , something still high wing and slow - but with the 4 flight controls in the positions you describe for your Corsair . That is the most common stick arraingment in the US from what im told . Good Luck and happy Flying

s.lang · Sep 24, 2009, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by init4fun

you need a good amount of pratice to coordinate rudder , ailerons , and dont forget elevator , all at the same time

OK, NOW I'm getting a little scared! LOL....

Thnaks for the tips, though, I appreciate it!

Xpress.. · Sep 24, 2009, 05:28 PM

^Once you get used to them, you can't get enough of them!

I'm always pushing the sticks to the stops, just because a tumbling plane looks pretty awesome

Ensign Jimmy · Sep 24, 2009, 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by s.lang

EDIT: One question on first flying the Corsair....should I initially use only rudder and elevator since it's equipped with both, and ignore ailerons?

No, for the Corsair, the rudder is controlled by the left stick (assuming you live in the US,) and the right stick controls elevator and aileron. So keep using the right stick to induce roll and pitch changes.

Quote:

I'm thinking no, because while the SC has both elevator and rudder on the right stick (left "stick" is just a throttle slider), the Corsair has elevator and aileron on the right stick, with throttle and rudder on the left stick. I assume then that rudder is really used only for landing and takeoff (at least initially)?

For the beginning 4-channel pilot, this is typically the case. You only use the rudder to steer on the ground and to keep the plane tracking straight as you make your final approach to land. As you pick up experience, you'll eventually learn to start using a bit of rudder in turns to keep the nose from dropping while the plane is banked.

s.lang · Sep 28, 2009, 12:43 AM

Wow, what a day! So I flew the Cub yesterday. Loops, stalls, whatever it could do, I was making it do. Practiced a LOT of touch and go's. At the end of the second battery, I pretty much had decided this plane had done all it could for me. It was definitely time for ailerons.

So I headed to the the LHS, and picked up a bind and fly Parkzone Trojan T-28. I had done a lot of research and had a lot of discussions with my neighbor who I mentioned in a previous post.

Charged the batteries (uses the same battery as my Corsair, which I STILL have not flown!), so now I have two packs. My neighbor and I headed to the park. When we got there I handed him the transmitter and said "here...you launch it". He laughed and said I could do it. So I did. The first thing I noticed was the power. Took off at full throttle then dialed back to about 50% to keep it manageable. I also had the transmitter on low. The second thing that struck me is how intuitive an aileron plane is. Way more so than the Cub. The inputs I gave and the reaction of the airplane just made "sense", you know?

I did have him land the first time, but I landed every time after that this morning. Went back to the park again this evening and flew 2 more batteries' worth. The only issue I had was one hard landing that popped the main gear partially out from the wing. A little 5-min epoxy, and she's ready to go for tomorrow.

So, I think I'm hooked. Now if I could just get the guts to fly the Corsair....maybe next week!

PS...I gave the Cub to another one of my neighbors. He wants to learn, and now the guy next door to him is talking about getting one, so there would be four pilots on our street now!

Thanks for the input, all. Between that and my neighbor's help, I'm pretty stoked to have gone from really nothing, to aileron plane, in 3-1/2 weeks! All the help has REALLY accelerated the learning curve.

s.lang · Sep 29, 2009, 11:12 AM

Went flying this morning before work. I'm finding it's a lot easier around here to get an empty field at 6:30 AM than it is at 6:00 PM. Plus it's getting lighter at that time, not darker!

Do AYSO soccer programs run year round? Seems like those kids practice every day....about the only day the fields are devoid of soccer players is Sunday. Seems like with all that practice the US should have a ton of little Beckhams running around....but I need to stay on topic....

Went through two batteries and did lots of touch-and-go's. Need to build up the nerve to do my first roll with the new plane...I'm thinking I need lots of altitude in case it all goes south!

rafe_b · Sep 29, 2009, 11:23 AM

Morning flying is the best, though I find it's a solitary thing -- I can't seem to get other flyers to join me for that. I started flying RC in January of this year, with lots of snow on the ground. Flying at dawn on a winter's morning isn't everyone's cup of tea, but I enjoyed it a lot -- and I've always considered myself a night owl. These days it's dark by 6:30 PM, so evening flying is almost done for the season.

Sep 23, 2009, 07:58 PM	#1
s.lang Registered User Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 76	New pilot What's up folks, first post here, but have done tons of reading! OK, so I've been into it for about 3 weeks now. I have a Piper Super Cub LP for flying in larger areas, and an Ember 2 for flying in the cul-de-sac in front of my house. I learned the wind lesson rather early with the Cub....took off, and the plane immediately blew over, landing harmlessly on the grass. Not being smart enough to call it quits, I took off again. The plane got airborne, and it became painfully obvious there was too much wind. I mean, it was flying....it just wasn't making forward progress...LOL. So I turned it, and was forced to land with the wind. It actually came down looking fine, then a gust took it sideways, when it was about 4 feet off the ground (looking fine), right into a volleyball pole, snapping the wing off. Nice thing about these planes is their ability to be repaired with 5 minute epoxy.... I have flown the plane, with repaired wing, about 10 times since then, with no issues, and no more crashes. I can do most of the things the plane can do, including loop (4 year old daughter loves those). I'm not yet comfortable with landing it exactly where I want to land it...I bring it down, and whatever trajectory it's on, is how it lands (into the wind, though). So I'm working on approaches, now that I have the landing flare down. I find the Ember 2 to be a great learning tool, especially for the flying toward / flying away aspect. Small, light, all the principles the same as the Cub, but I can do it whenever I want as long as the wind is right, without having to get in the truck to a local park, only to find soccer practice is going on. So...any tips on good, consistent landing approaches? I think it's a mental issue, I just need to trust myself that I can get the plane to line up consistently and get the approach right. It doesn't help that most times I'm landing on grass, where even the most perfect landing nearly always results in the plane landing softly on its' nose, tail up.

Sep 24, 2009, 01:10 PM	#8
s.lang Registered User Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 76	Thanks Leo. One thing I've been working on with the Cub is "mixing" the inputs of rudder and elevator in my turns, as I'll need that experience with the aileron-equipped Corsair in order to turn it. Your advice about the differences in the two planes - where the SC naturally returns to level flight by no input, and the Corsair needs to be "told" to go back to level flight, will be heeded. As far as being comfortable or relaxing.....I'm not there yet with the SC, so maybe I should start flying the Corsair now, as I'm accustomed to being uncomfortable and tense right now!! LOL! EDIT: One question on first flying the Corsair....should I initially use only rudder and elevator since it's equipped with both, and ignore ailerons? I'm thinking no, because while the SC has both elevator and rudder on the right stick (left "stick" is just a throttle slider), the Corsair has elevator and aileron on the right stick, with throttle and rudder on the left stick. I assume then that rudder is really used only for landing and takeoff (at least initially)? Last edited by s.lang; Sep 24, 2009 at 01:27 PM.

Sep 28, 2009, 12:43 AM	#13
s.lang Registered User Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 76	Wow, what a day! So I flew the Cub yesterday. Loops, stalls, whatever it could do, I was making it do. Practiced a LOT of touch and go's. At the end of the second battery, I pretty much had decided this plane had done all it could for me. It was definitely time for ailerons. So I headed to the the LHS, and picked up a bind and fly Parkzone Trojan T-28. I had done a lot of research and had a lot of discussions with my neighbor who I mentioned in a previous post. Charged the batteries (uses the same battery as my Corsair, which I STILL have not flown!), so now I have two packs. My neighbor and I headed to the park. When we got there I handed him the transmitter and said "here...you launch it". He laughed and said I could do it. So I did. The first thing I noticed was the power. Took off at full throttle then dialed back to about 50% to keep it manageable. I also had the transmitter on low. The second thing that struck me is how intuitive an aileron plane is. Way more so than the Cub. The inputs I gave and the reaction of the airplane just made "sense", you know? I did have him land the first time, but I landed every time after that this morning. Went back to the park again this evening and flew 2 more batteries' worth. The only issue I had was one hard landing that popped the main gear partially out from the wing. A little 5-min epoxy, and she's ready to go for tomorrow. So, I think I'm hooked. Now if I could just get the guts to fly the Corsair....maybe next week! PS...I gave the Cub to another one of my neighbors. He wants to learn, and now the guy next door to him is talking about getting one, so there would be four pilots on our street now! Thanks for the input, all. Between that and my neighbor's help, I'm pretty stoked to have gone from really nothing, to aileron plane, in 3-1/2 weeks! All the help has REALLY accelerated the learning curve. Last edited by s.lang; Sep 28, 2009 at 12:54 AM.

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Sep 23, 2009, 08:13 PM	#2
Xpress.. DW Foamies nut. Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Just moved to Crest California Posts: 11,590	http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1115446

Sep 23, 2009, 11:48 PM	#3
s.lang Registered User Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 76	Thanks, I did review that thread too. I used a lot of the advice and am happy to say that when I flew this afternoon after work, it was GREAT. I was assisted by absolute dead calm (rare near the ocean where I live). Nevertheless, I was able to practice multiple appproaches, flying in over grass to an asphalt playground. My only incident out of probably 10 landings was once misjudging the drop in, and I JUST caught the last 6" of grass before touchdown on the asphalt, which flipped the plane, but no harm done. The rest were pretty good landings. It was a bit stressful as I had to land between basketball poles about 30 feet apart. I know that's miles to an experienced pilot, but it felt like inches to me! The advice really helped, thanks.

Sep 24, 2009, 02:38 AM	#4
Xpress.. DW Foamies nut. Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Just moved to Crest California Posts: 11,590	Yep, just keep the practice up

Sep 24, 2009, 12:58 PM	#7
Leo L Registered User Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 743	Yes, the Corsair is definitely more difficult to take-off and land than the SuperCub. Its generally considered to be a good THIRD plane, once you have mastered ailerons. However, since you have the huge benefit of having an experienced flyer available to help you, you should do OK. Make sure that the transmiter is set to low rates. Let him take off and get the Corsair to at least 150ft., then have you take over. The plane will respond to your inputs almost immediatley, while the SC has a certain amount of lag. With the SC, once you started a turn, if you want to continue the turn you keep the stick at the turn position. With the Corsair, once you are in a turn, if you keep the stick at that position it will continue to roll until its upside-down. If you want to continue the turn you need to return the stick to neutral. With the SC, if you want to end the turn, you return the stick to neutral. With the Corsair, if you want to end the turn, you need to push the stick in the opposite direction to get it to roll to level. With the SC, if you let go of the controls completely, it will level out and glide gently to earth. With the Corsair, if you let go of the controls completely, it will roll over and lawn-dart. Now that I probably scared you, don't spend time overthinking. Your natural reactions will allow you to make the needed corrections. The biggest issue is that with the Corsair (as well as most 4 channel planes) you need to constantly watch the plane and adjust its flight; there is no relaxation period while the plane is flying. With a 3 channel high wing like the SC, you can set it to level flight, then trim a slight turn and set the transmitter on the ground, letting the plane do gentle circles overhead while you relax.

Sep 24, 2009, 05:28 PM	#11
Xpress.. DW Foamies nut. Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Just moved to Crest California Posts: 11,590	^Once you get used to them, you can't get enough of them! I'm always pushing the sticks to the stops, just because a tumbling plane looks pretty awesome

Sep 29, 2009, 11:12 AM	#14
s.lang Registered User Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 76	Went flying this morning before work. I'm finding it's a lot easier around here to get an empty field at 6:30 AM than it is at 6:00 PM. Plus it's getting lighter at that time, not darker! Do AYSO soccer programs run year round? Seems like those kids practice every day....about the only day the fields are devoid of soccer players is Sunday. Seems like with all that practice the US should have a ton of little Beckhams running around....but I need to stay on topic.... Went through two batteries and did lots of touch-and-go's. Need to build up the nerve to do my first roll with the new plane...I'm thinking I need lots of altitude in case it all goes south!

Sep 29, 2009, 11:23 AM	#15
rafe_b Registered User Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 2,948	Morning flying is the best, though I find it's a solitary thing -- I can't seem to get other flyers to join me for that. I started flying RC in January of this year, with lots of snow on the ground. Flying at dawn on a winter's morning isn't everyone's cup of tea, but I enjoyed it a lot -- and I've always considered myself a night owl. These days it's dark by 6:30 PM, so evening flying is almost done for the season.