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Old Aug 11, 2010, 12:17 PM
JossyRC dot com
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Canada, ON, Toronto
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Originally Posted by magic k2 View Post
after they cut them off they sell them as servo horn extentions lol:d

lol
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Old Aug 11, 2010, 12:24 PM
Wolf Pack RC Heli Club
East of the Sun and West of the Moon
Joined Apr 2010
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ok, my brother and i are ordering a couple of 4G6's today and we cant decide between the hopped-up one or the really hopped-up one that uses the 2-cell lipo. any thoughts out there? (and sorry if i should be using a different forum).
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Old Aug 11, 2010, 02:34 PM
Wolf Pack RC Heli Club
East of the Sun and West of the Moon
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I just bought 2 V120D02S. i cant wait. i hope that i made the right decision.
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Old Aug 15, 2010, 03:31 AM
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Toronto Canada
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I just bought a used CB100.

It was likely being sold because it had significant tail twitch, which I was successful in correcting thanks to the assistance found on this thread.

There is still one more thing I want to try and that is mounting the main motor ESC between the servos.

My reason for this post is to enquire about the CB100 flight behaviour which may be a result of its 45 degree flybar.

I noticed that when flying in fast BACKWARD flight, the heli would fly itself into the ground.

I was wondering if someone could point me to some posts with realistic conclusions regarding the CB100 flight characteristics in fast flight as a result of the 45 degree flybar.
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Old Aug 15, 2010, 09:07 AM
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Hilton (Rochester), NY
Joined Mar 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Martyn McKinney View Post
I just bought a used CB100.

It was likely being sold because it had significant tail twitch, which I was successful in correcting thanks to the assistance found on this thread.

There is still one more thing I want to try and that is mounting the main motor ESC between the servos.

My reason for this post is to enquire about the CB100 flight behaviour which may be a result of its 45 degree flybar.

I noticed that when flying in fast BACKWARD flight, the heli would fly itself into the ground.

I was wondering if someone could point me to some posts with realistic conclusions regarding the CB100 flight characteristics in fast flight as a result of the 45 degree flybar.
That sounds very strange for this heli. It is tilted/ leans to the right, for some reason, but I've never had a problem with it doing what you describe.
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Old Aug 17, 2010, 04:56 PM
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Chardon Ohio
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Does anybody have a picture of the blue canopy for the cb100? I see a few vendors are carrying it but there are no pictures of it.
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Old Aug 17, 2010, 05:14 PM
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los angeles,ca
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Originally Posted by composit View Post
Does anybody have a picture of the blue canopy for the cb100? I see a few vendors are carrying it but there are no pictures of it.
If you have cb100 user handbook their is picture of the cb100D on it check it out
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Old Aug 17, 2010, 07:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kodak_jack View Post
That sounds very strange for this heli. It is tilted/ leans to the right, for some reason, but I've never had a problem with it doing what you describe.
Thanks for your response.

I have one remaining problem. Tail bobbing.

Tail bobbing is usually caused by insufficient head damping.

The only damping in this heli is the elasticity of the blades, so I guess that I am stuck with it unless there are aftermarket blades available that are more flexible.

I discovered that with the lighter 400mah lipo cell, there was virtually no bobbing, but it returned when using the heavier 600mah cell.

For fun I put in a brushed main motor from an old 4G3. This lightens it to about 48gm without battery.

Still have the stock brushless tail motor, which sometimes won't initialize on a freshly charged cell.

Great heli for buzzing around my yard!
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Old Aug 17, 2010, 08:51 PM
Pro at Uncontrolled Landings
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SoCal, Pruhdoe Bay AK
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Martyn McKinney View Post
Thanks for your response.

I have one remaining problem. Tail bobbing.

Tail bobbing is usually caused by insufficient head damping.

The only damping in this heli is the elasticity of the blades, so I guess that I am stuck with it unless there are aftermarket blades available that are more flex
There are actually o-rings in the head, around the feathering shaft that acts as dampeners. In the stock CB100 head these are held in by "E" clips. These clips can eventually damage the o-rings, and they come out. A popular mod is to use the MSR feathering shaft kit to replace the o-rings, and replace the e-clips with washes. The feathering shaft and o-rings are found between the blade grips.
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Old Aug 17, 2010, 09:02 PM
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Yep ^
Bobbing is usually dampers too tight.

Also make sure your blades are equal tension in the grips. Not tight, but not loose as they come stock. Blade should be able to support it's own weight when knife edge.

I have flown a CB100 once and it will fly backwards without dropping out of the sky. It was not my model so maybe fast walking pace was as fast as I got it going. Make sure you up the extent etc as there is not alot of margin in stock config to counter.

Amp
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Old Aug 18, 2010, 01:17 AM
Micro-Heli-Concepts
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Australia, NSW, Blacktown
Joined Dec 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ampdraw View Post
Yep ^
Bobbing is usually dampers too tight.

Also make sure your blades are equal tension in the grips. Not tight, but not loose as they come stock. Blade should be able to support it's own weight when knife edge.

I have flown a CB100 once and it will fly backwards without dropping out of the sky. It was not my model so maybe fast walking pace was as fast as I got it going. Make sure you up the extent etc as there is not alot of margin in stock config to counter.

Amp

I remember that time. You almost landed it on your head.
CB100 and 4#3B fun in the hall (4 min 3 sec)
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Old Aug 23, 2010, 11:25 PM
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CB100 observations

Mostly @ Martyn McKinney's CB100 questions

RE: 'morning sickness' of BL tail motor
OTB, the CB100's tail motor when cold required 5 - 10 start-ups before it would 'catch'. Sometimes it would start very slow and just spin up to full speed and stay there. But once it finally started servo-ing it worked great for the remainder of a session.
That behavior stopped when I put a very tiny drop of trinity oil (probably any oil would work) placed through a vent hole in the stock BL motor's rotating housing so as to run down the inner face toward the bearing. I do this about every 10 flights, and no more 'morning sickness'. But what does this mean?

RE: 'pitch down in reverse'

I happened to buy my CB100 during a prolonged series of '45 degree rotor' mods to a 4#3B that turned up a large number of peculiar behaviors. 'Pitch down in reverse' was not one of them, but 'pitch down in FF' WAS one. For some combinations of servo motion (i.e. first hole, second hole, third hole) and ratio of ( rotor angle shift/swash angle shift ) the little heli would absolutely nose dive at full stick forward. CG had a little to to with it too I think.

Did you say you saw the trouble with a 600 mAH but not a 400 mAH Lipo? I think the stock battery is a 500 mAH (lighter weight).

This not an explanation, just a clue, because the CB100 I received...well it is really hard to imagine it doing this unless the CG was really way way off.

RE: FFF

OTB, my CB100 was really slow in FF. But it did fly absolutely straight and level at full stick forward or back (which none of my other mods on the 4#3B had done up to that point, so that really got my attention).

Got pretty zippy FF and very nice handling by doing just two things:

i) Replaced the stock cut-off servo arm with one that had all three holes and moved both servo-swash links to the third hole out.

ii) On the mixer arm, moved the link ball to the inner position.

I have not been able to clock this heli yet, but in the above configuration I would guess it can do 8-10 mph (i.e. pushing 15 ft/sec).

NOTE: straight & level FF flight path was preserved


RE: Possible minor design changes in CB100 head by Walkera from first product release to present....what era is yours from?

I noticed some differences ibetween the flybar angle on the CB100 I received and that represented in a sales photo (see pics below). I've always been suspicious of the 'exactitude' of the 90 degrees, 45 degrees, etc in the phasing arguments and this just puts more coal on that fire.

The little shifts in geometric phasing might make a significant difference in forward flight characteristics

RE: Final comment

My CB100 was purchased to be sacrificed to a Tech Head mod. But it's just been so much fun to fly in the yard it has earned a stay of execution, at least until a few of these delicious mysteries get cleared up.
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Old Aug 23, 2010, 11:34 PM
JossyRC dot com
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Canada, ON, Toronto
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@liftbuster - is the picture of yours after you moved the mixer arm ball links to the inner position?
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Old Aug 24, 2010, 08:06 AM
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Toronto Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LiftBuster View Post
Mostly @ Martyn McKinney's CB100 questions
LiftBuster:

Great post! Thanks for your input.

As I had mentioned I bought my CB100 used.

It had terrible tail glitching problems which I now believe were primarily attributable to radio or gyro interference from the two brushless speed controllers.

The biggest improvement that I made was to remove the brushless tail motor and install the brushed main motor for a HobbyZone Sukhoi.

It is held on to the tail boom with an o-ring.

The heli is now my favorite for flying around my front yard. I can get close to 12 minutes hover on a 600mah cell. I like it even better than my new Blade SR120 because the CB100 handles the wind better.

I believe that the severe pitch down problem might have been caused by the weak tail or tail glitches.

If the heli rotates (yaw) in FFF, the gyro weights don't care and for some time because of the heavy weights. the flybar stays in the same position relative to its surroundings. This could be completely out of phase with the new heli position which in my case ended up in the heli diving into the ground.

The new, much stronger, brushed tail motor has solved all the heli's problems and my next step is to use the same motor on my 4G3.
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Old Aug 24, 2010, 09:50 AM
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Joined Aug 2008
170 Posts
@ JossyRC
Good question. that picture was taken 'as received'. And I believe the servo links were on the first (innermost) of the three, and the mixer arm links were definitely on the outermost postion at the end of the arm. It really barely moved in FF.

One more note on the mixer arm. I just put the mixer arm ball links back in the outermost slot on the mixer arm leaving the servo links in #3 to see how it flew. Not a lot of difference, but high winds and rain here have kept the jury out. More flight time required to make a judgement.

@ Martyn
re: wind
Good you mentioned the 'wind handling', I noticed that too and was a little surprised by it. It handles nicely even under gusty conditions. Something is very right about the CB100 configuration.

re: tail motor
That's a very interesting mod, will keep it in mind - Does it also draw less current than the stock BL tail motor?

re: pitch down
If unexpected turns from the misbehaving tail result in pitch down, couldn't we reproduce that by intentionally making a flat turn and forward stick at the same time we might see a tendency to pitch down? Have to try that!
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