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Old Apr 27, 2010, 12:19 PM
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livonia bob's Avatar
United States, MI, Livonia
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Originally Posted by dreadhero View Post
I agree with that assessment. I only flew my brother 4#6s for a couple of minutes, but I could tell that it wouldn't be could for whipping around the house. It is just too big for that. Although after a couple of weeks with one, I might attempt it. Its hard to tell when you are flying a heli for the first time. I fly my cb100 and msr as fast as they will go inside so it might be possible to do the same with the 4#6s.

Hey bob, I got my brothers tail working again with your advice, but he has since crashed and developed bad tail wag. I was thinking it is probably a stripped gear. What else should I have him check.
Try turning the tail rotor by hand and have it driving the main rotor to see if it will handle the power needed if it will spin the main's around 360 degrees without slipping anywhere than the tail drive should be OK for flying. If not look for missing teeth or stripped out "D" hole's in the gears.. Look at the main gear to make sure no teeth are missing or to short to engage the pinion. Also you want to check the swash to make sure that none of the servo to swash arms are bent inward and kissing the inner swash links as they pass by the arms..

Only if all the above are OK will be get into the gyro settings..
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Old Apr 27, 2010, 12:21 PM
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cool, thanks for the tips. I will have him do that. That 4#6s is a nice little heli. He said he flew it outside and it was excellent in the wind. I can't wait to try it outside, since none of my helis are good in the wind, including my hbfp v2.
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Old Apr 27, 2010, 12:24 PM
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United States, MI, Livonia
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Originally Posted by nitrodamuz View Post
Errrr...... Bob, I've cleaned the shaft with alcohol bfore glue it. pls teach me the procedure for putting the hot glue to my tailblade.

does the blade inserted to tailmotor-shaft before I stick the shaft to gun's nozzle ? And why should heat the shaft before put glue on ?

I didn't use much glue, only put it surround the shaft that contact tailblade.
I put the rotor on the shaft then I stick the shaft into the nozzle of the glue gun for a couple of seconds maybe 3 or 4.. The pull off the gun while squirting out some glue. I also spread some glue on the hub area of the blade the spot where they most often break so I end up with sort of a wide mountain of hot glue which then peaks at the tip of the shaft..
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Old Apr 27, 2010, 12:27 PM
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Jakarta, Indonesia
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Originally Posted by Samay View Post
Holy smokes Jason, thank you! Will wire you some funds now, I thank you for your generosity, but I do not want to put you out of your business! Plus the gift tail rotor hub is absolutely amazing, and has saved me many many costly tail blades! I will be back in HK next Thursday, the parts will be waiting for me then! Will also switch back to the cb100 rotor head next week as well, so I can actually fly around the house and land everywhere.
@Samay
What is tail rotor hub? I would like to save my tailblades too. pls post a picture when u installed it in your cb100.
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Old Apr 27, 2010, 12:37 PM
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Jakarta, Indonesia
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Originally Posted by livonia bob View Post
I put the rotor on the shaft then I stick the shaft into the nozzle of the glue gun for a couple of seconds maybe 3 or 4.. The pull off the gun while squirting out some glue. I also spread some glue on the hub area of the blade the spot where they most often break so I end up with sort of a wide mountain of hot glue which then peaks at the tip of the shaft..
Great Idea, LB. I'll try that tomorrow. One more question, is this hub where you spread, the spot that most often break, do u mean the blade's tip that normally inserted to motor's bell ?
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Old Apr 27, 2010, 12:43 PM
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United States, MI, Livonia
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Originally Posted by nitrodamuz View Post
Great Idea, LB. I'll try that tomorrow. One more question, is this hub where you spread, the spot that most often break, do u mean the blade's tip that normally inserted to motor's bell ?
Yes I think you got it now there is only one mountain of hot glue on the rotor blade/shaft.. you are trying to build up that area where the blade area turns into the hub area..and cover the end of the shaft..
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Old Apr 27, 2010, 12:46 PM
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@LB
Ok. I will try that. Thanks a lot.
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Old Apr 27, 2010, 02:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Ampdraw View Post
With a HH gyro there is no mixing required.

I have been thinking of either a flybarless 4#3B using the 4#6's new 3 axis gyro or trying a 2433 in a 4#3B with a motor tail.

The main issue will be if either of those rx's put out a standard digital servo signal. There has been extensive testing here by Don in his thread http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...1122227&page=2 to try and use a 2609 (4g6rx) with a motor tail on a 4g3 and there are irregularities with the signal...ie it does not work properly even with the fastest PPM 1s esc which is no longer available from Nanoheli apparently. It was a special order PPM flea. So in essence...not sure!


Regarding using a main esc and a converter for the tail...nope won't work properly...not fast enough and the AEO 5A is one of the slower 1s esc's I have tried. It would work with a converter and modified and flashed Turnigy plush 6a but that is far more pricy than a wk tail esc.

Amp
I am talking about using a brushed tail, not a brushless. If the RX can drive a tail servo, I don't see how it would not drive an ESC unless the servos from Walkera are also special. They are kind of I suppose, as they only have 1S to work with, but I believe most servo control chips can work down to 3V.

In the worst case, we may have to tapping into a walkera tail servo to make an brushed ESC out of it.

Let me try connecting my regular servo to a cyclic port of the 2406A to see if we really need a special servo. However I have to fix my 2406A first.

Are we sure the gyro in the 2433 is HH?
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Old Apr 27, 2010, 02:36 PM
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United States, WV, Hurricane
Joined Jan 2010
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Change of plans after installation. I decided to go with the CF battery tray instead of the OEM one. I am using the 4#6 boom struts and the screws that mount them to the LG kind of get in the way a little bit when sliding the battery in. It was still doable, but it was too much flexing of the OEM battery tray. I don't think there was an issue with this in V1 due to the fact the mounting holes for the boom support struts were mounted on the side of the legs, not directly at the point where the battery would slide in. I'm more than okay with it though since I really hated not using that beautiful piece of CF for the tray, plus it will add the strength that's supposed to be there.
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Old Apr 27, 2010, 05:19 PM
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I finally got rid of my tail wag completely. It turns out my gyro was turned up to high which also made left turns choppy. However, at the point the gyro is turned down enough to stop the wag, it leaves me wishing I had more tail authority. I can't whip it around like I can with the gyro cranked and when I jam it forward the tail kicks out a little. I have my elevator servo pin on the middle link. I guess this is more like it is supposed to fly, but it is a lot of fun with the tail having more power, just have to deal with a bit of wag
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Old Apr 27, 2010, 08:31 PM
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United States, MI, Livonia
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Originally Posted by dreadhero View Post
I finally got rid of my tail wag completely. It turns out my gyro was turned up to high which also made left turns choppy. However, at the point the gyro is turned down enough to stop the wag, it leaves me wishing I had more tail authority. I can't whip it around like I can with the gyro cranked and when I jam it forward the tail kicks out a little. I have my elevator servo pin on the middle link. I guess this is more like it is supposed to fly, but it is a lot of fun with the tail having more power, just have to deal with a bit of wag
Keep playing with the gyro till you find the sweet spot.. Very little bit of turns if you can see the screw driver turning your going to far..
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Old Apr 27, 2010, 09:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Wasp09 View Post
I am talking about using a brushed tail, not a brushless. If the RX can drive a tail servo, I don't see how it would not drive an ESC unless the servos from Walkera are also special. They are kind of I suppose, as they only have 1S to work with, but I believe most servo control chips can work down to 3V.

In the worst case, we may have to tapping into a walkera tail servo to make an brushed ESC out of it.

Let me try connecting my regular servo to a cyclic port of the 2406A to see if we really need a special servo. However I have to fix my 2406A first.

Are we sure the gyro in the 2433 is HH?
Have a read of Don's thread I linked to. It seems simple enough....rx tail drives a servo so therefore it will drive an esc...not so. It has to do with the signal wk commands their servos with...anyway extensive testing was done with the 2609...maybe the 2433 will be fine...who knows this is wk!

Also I am unsure why you want to try to convert back from PPM to PWM so you can use a brushed tail??

Amp
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Old Apr 27, 2010, 10:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Ampdraw View Post
Have a read of Don's thread I linked to. It seems simple enough....rx tail drives a servo so therefore it will drive an esc...not so. It has to do with the signal wk commands their servos with...anyway extensive testing was done with the 2609...maybe the 2433 will be fine...who knows this is wk!

Also I am unsure why you want to try to convert back from PPM to PWM so you can use a brushed tail??

Amp
The 2433 has 4 outputs with no ESC built-in. Is that correct? The rudder output is designed to the drive a tail servo. I am not sure what you are talking about converting back. The rudder pot is not designed for a brushless tail either.

It would be easier to make up a simple brushed ESC to fit in between than a brushless ESC which we would worry about initialization. Walkera probably just uses a different polarity, pulse width, amplitude or cycle time to make it different from anybody else.

Basically a servo with the gears removed is an ESC with motor installed. We just need to strip the servo down and give it a bigger MOSFET (or 4 MOSFETs if you also want the tail rotor to rotate backwards like the tail on a CP to have negative pitch as well) and replace the servo motor with the real tail motor.

Analog servo can be as cheap as $2 as we don't need good motor nor gears. Walkera may cost more.

There are servos that claim to has a brushless motor. If you have one of those and if it works with walkera, you may strip it and have an ESC for a brushless tail.

If the 2433 does not work with any other servo, we need the 4#6 tail servo. How much is that?
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Old Apr 27, 2010, 10:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Wasp09 View Post
The 2433 has 4 outputs with no ESC built-in. Is that correct? The rudder output is designed to the drive a tail servo. I am not sure what you are talking about converting back. The rudder pot is not designed for a brushless tail either.

It would be easier to make up a simple brushed ESC to fit in between than a brushless ESC which we would worry about initialization. Walkera probably just uses a different polarity, pulse width, amplitude or cycle time to make it different from anybody else.

Basically a servo with the gears removed is an ESC with motor installed. We just need to strip the servo down and give it a bigger MOSFET (or 4 MOSFETs if you also want the tail rotor to rotate backwards like the tail on a CP to have negative pitch as well) and replace the servo motor with the real tail motor.

Analog servo can be as cheap as $2 as we don't need good motor nor gears. Walkera may cost more.

There are servos that claim to has a brushless motor. If you have one of those and if it works with walkera, you may strip it and have an ESC for a brushless tail.

If the 2433 does not work with any other servo, we need the 4#6 tail servo. How much is that?
Why not just get the 2610S RX which will drive a regular servo for sure.. I hope as mine will be here tomorrow and one will go into my Copter X 250 and the other in my 4G6.. Then use your servo mod to power the tail motor..
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Old Apr 27, 2010, 10:33 PM
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I don't have a 2433 but I would presume they run three pin PPM output from all sockets. Rudder PPM would already have gyro influence. Interestingly the 2433 has 5 sockets...http://www.robshangar.com/tag/rx2433/

I understand using a brushed motored servo as an esc for a brushed tail. Beyond what I have done on these 1s helis so I can't offer any help.

The thing is with Walkera you may have to work out what they have done to their signal/s etc. One of their main goals seems to be proprietry and sometimes to their own detriment.

With the 4G6 for eg the main throttle PPM signal meant that the normal esc that many were using on their 4g3's (XP-7A) would not arm due to, from memory, wk using a different voltage output from that rx's throttle port. Tipstar found the removal of a step up resistor allowed the esc to arm.

I know you have the knowledge to know what should work...but with wk electronics it is always a longer road than expected. Good luck. I would love to know if the rudder port could be utilised with a super fast 1s esc and a brushless tail. I could have a headhold 4#3 flybarless if in fact the rudder gyro in the 2433 is HH.

Amp
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