1/72 Foxtrot Kit - Page 3

SilentHunter · Oct 23, 2009, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Albion

Arrr but 9 out of 10 Aqua men say the fox is more streamlined underwater, the kilo only has a rounded bow cos it nuklear powdered

You got it! lol

The Kilo is actually in micrometer atom splitting scale,is like 1/71 or thereabouts

Albion · Oct 23, 2009, 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nick_75au

#Maximum speed

* 10-12 knots surfaced
* 17-25 knots submerged
Propulsion: Diesel-electric 5,900 shp (4,400 kW)

16 knots (18 mph; 30 km/h) surfaced
15 knots (17 mph; 28 km/h) submerged
9 knots (10 mph; 17 km/h) snorkeling
5400 Hp 4027 Kw

Interesting comparison

Nick

I'm assuming first figures are first for Kilo second for Foxtrot.
If so then thats the diffinitive answer to Aquas rounded bow rant , sorry for taking this of tangent. Similar power outputs, the boat type bow slightly faster on surface, rounded bow faster underwater, where it counts.

nick_75au · Oct 23, 2009, 10:27 PM

Had to look it up, to prove it to myself, the Kilo has a substantially greater displacement as well with only a modest increase in power.
Yes I think the point is settled for me.

"I like that retro look compared to the Kilo's larger streamlined hull."

same for me,

Nick

herrmill · Oct 24, 2009, 06:18 PM

Rick sent in some photos of the final stern work before completes the hull plating.

herrmill · Oct 24, 2009, 07:26 PM

Boy, does this guy work fast!

Akula971 · Oct 25, 2009, 05:22 AM

From what I remembered the Kilo is a Diesel Electric Albion. They changed the hull shape away from the XXI type because the Russians have always thought that the German boats had insufficient reserve buoyancy. A large double hull helps resolve this. It has the nice rounded shapes because it is hydrodynamical a better shape requiring less power to push it through the water. There comes a point where extra revs/power does not produce extra speed only extra noise. It would be interesting to compare the hulls for their CW values. It could also be tested on the models too. Now that would be interesting. Similar battery packs, similar motors, compare speed and endurance of a model Kilo and a model Foxtrot.

nick_75au · Oct 25, 2009, 05:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akula971

From what I remembered the Kilo is a Diesel Electric Albion. They changed the hull shape away from the XXI type because the Russians have always thought that the German boats had insufficient reserve buoyancy. A large double hull helps resolve this. It has the nice rounded shapes because it is hydrodynamical a better shape requiring less power to push it through the water. There comes a point where extra revs/power does not produce extra speed only extra noise. It would be interesting to compare the hulls for their CW values. It could also be tested on the models too. Now that would be interesting. Similar battery packs, similar motors, compare speed and endurance of a model Kilo and a model Foxtrot.

Hi Akula,
I sort of drifted off topic due to a now banned poster and his assertion that the sharp bow was more efficient in a different thread. I saw the two hulls next to each other and looked up the stats out of curiosity, noticing the similarities in power. I'm sure Albion is well aware of the Kilos propulsion plant

Nick

Akula971 · Oct 25, 2009, 07:00 AM

Is it the "happyman" that has been banned? or is he just away?

herrmill · Oct 25, 2009, 07:12 AM

I believe a long holiday.

Speaking of propulsion systems, Rick's already got parts ordered for the Foxtrot's triple screw twin piston ballast system. Not sure at this point who all wants 2 or 3 working screws - several of us who have other similar sized subs like the idea of having a 2.5" twin screw system to switch among our small, but growing fleets.

Capt_Christo · Oct 25, 2009, 08:03 PM

I'll go for the 3 screw if room allows.

Albion · Oct 25, 2009, 09:10 PM

3 screws sounds good. i had considered a twin motor design, and then a pulley / belt linking one outer screw to the centre screw. But if a single motor with three geared outputs can be made then why not. As Andy said earlier (here or somewhere else??) the centre screw pushing water over the rudder is going to help with turning, so it really needs to be more that just eye candy

herrmill · Oct 25, 2009, 09:48 PM

It would be twin motor setup with gearbox mounted on the bulkhead.

SilentHunter · Oct 26, 2009, 10:48 AM

Im going for the 3 screw setup, powered by a 480 motor and about 3.5:1 reduction. Im waiting for the spur gears to arrive from sdp-si

Keep in mind the screws are only about 20-25mm in diameter.

Yes I like the fact that with 3 screws working, not only will it be more responsive in turning and pitch, but of course scale as well.

Albion · Oct 26, 2009, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SilentHunter

Im going for the 3 screw setup, powered by a 480 motor and about 3.5:1 reduction. Im waiting for the spur gears to arrive from sdp-si

Keep in mind the screws are only about 20-25mm in diameter.

Yes I like the fact that with 3 screws working, not only will it be more responsive in turning and pitch, but of course scale as well.

Superb

tweety777 · Oct 26, 2009, 01:09 PM

Looking good!

Won't these ships be very noisy in real?
With 3 props you can hardly expect it could be quite.

Greetings Josse

Oct 24, 2009, 06:18 PM	#34
herrmill Shanghai'd Expat Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Xiaoshan, China Posts: 2,429	Rick sent in some photos of the final stern work before completes the hull plating. Attached Thumbnails Project 641 final stern shape 70.1 KB · Views: 28 Project 641 final stern shape 86.0 KB · Views: 24 Project 641 final stern shape 64.1 KB · Views: 35 Project 641 final stern shape 105.9 KB · Views: 31

Oct 24, 2009, 07:26 PM	#35
herrmill Shanghai'd Expat Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Xiaoshan, China Posts: 2,429	Boy, does this guy work fast! Attached Thumbnails 64.1 KB · Views: 68 87.3 KB · Views: 57 102.1 KB · Views: 42

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Oct 23, 2009, 10:27 PM	#33
nick_75au Tygum Lagoon Terror Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Regents Park, Qld, Australia Posts: 1,296	Had to look it up, to prove it to myself, the Kilo has a substantially greater displacement as well with only a modest increase in power. Yes I think the point is settled for me. "I like that retro look compared to the Kilo's larger streamlined hull." same for me, Nick

Oct 25, 2009, 05:22 AM	#36
Akula971 Is it me? Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Perfidious Albion Posts: 70	From what I remembered the Kilo is a Diesel Electric Albion. They changed the hull shape away from the XXI type because the Russians have always thought that the German boats had insufficient reserve buoyancy. A large double hull helps resolve this. It has the nice rounded shapes because it is hydrodynamical a better shape requiring less power to push it through the water. There comes a point where extra revs/power does not produce extra speed only extra noise. It would be interesting to compare the hulls for their CW values. It could also be tested on the models too. Now that would be interesting. Similar battery packs, similar motors, compare speed and endurance of a model Kilo and a model Foxtrot.

Oct 25, 2009, 07:00 AM	#38
Akula971 Is it me? Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Perfidious Albion Posts: 70	Is it the "happyman" that has been banned? or is he just away?

Oct 25, 2009, 07:12 AM	#39
herrmill Shanghai'd Expat Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Xiaoshan, China Posts: 2,429	I believe a long holiday. Speaking of propulsion systems, Rick's already got parts ordered for the Foxtrot's triple screw twin piston ballast system. Not sure at this point who all wants 2 or 3 working screws - several of us who have other similar sized subs like the idea of having a 2.5" twin screw system to switch among our small, but growing fleets.

Oct 25, 2009, 08:03 PM	#40
Capt_Christo Mostly harmless Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 362	I'll go for the 3 screw if room allows.

Oct 25, 2009, 09:10 PM	#41
Albion Registered User Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: singapore Posts: 152	3 screws sounds good. i had considered a twin motor design, and then a pulley / belt linking one outer screw to the centre screw. But if a single motor with three geared outputs can be made then why not. As Andy said earlier (here or somewhere else??) the centre screw pushing water over the rudder is going to help with turning, so it really needs to be more that just eye candy

Oct 25, 2009, 09:48 PM	#42
herrmill Shanghai'd Expat Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Xiaoshan, China Posts: 2,429	It would be twin motor setup with gearbox mounted on the bulkhead.

Oct 26, 2009, 10:48 AM	#43
SilentHunter under construction Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Green valley AZ Posts: 998	Im going for the 3 screw setup, powered by a 480 motor and about 3.5:1 reduction. Im waiting for the spur gears to arrive from sdp-si Keep in mind the screws are only about 20-25mm in diameter. Yes I like the fact that with 3 screws working, not only will it be more responsive in turning and pitch, but of course scale as well.

Oct 26, 2009, 01:09 PM	#45
tweety777 Registered User Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Vlaardingen, The Netherlands Posts: 656	Looking good! Won't these ships be very noisy in real? With 3 props you can hardly expect it could be quite. Greetings Josse