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Old Apr 21, 2010, 03:45 PM
wrecklessly misspeling stuff..
tuck's Avatar
United States, CA, Citrus Heights
Joined Feb 2009
1,008 Posts
Pefectly explained thank you Dennis. Cg is good to me plane rolls great but never had a way to really find out if diff was working or not so I just didn't use it. Now like I said expo is like a seesaw to me one day I have mid expo then next to none at all. My flights don't really vary just my thumb movement incraments I guess.
Dennis do you still have your sukhio for sale?
Zeb
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Old Apr 21, 2010, 03:51 PM
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Dennis C's Avatar
Grass Valley California
Joined Jun 2004
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Yes I do, are you still interested?

Dennis
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Old Apr 21, 2010, 04:44 PM
For the Birds
Stagger_Wing's Avatar
California
Joined Jul 2004
400 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by tuck View Post
... Do any of of you guys use differentail. If so how do you decide how much is effective, twenty rolls to a click untill your happy? Yup I still can't keep a consistant expo rate. So I might not be ready for diff.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis C View Post
Do a roll on a down line, if it has a barrel in it then add some sifferential ,this should be your last trim work, so be sure that C>G> are correct and all your other trimming is done.

Make sure you do not have any elevatro when you do the roll.
Dennis

Guys,

You donít want aileron differential on an aerobatic model because it will increase adverse yaw during inverted flight. As Dennis said if the airplane is not rolling axially it is probably because of elevator input. For aileron rolls make sure the airplane is unloaded before you start the roll and when doing slow rolls use the rudder to correct for any adverse yaw. Of course there is always the possibility that the linkages are not exactly the same for each aileron in which case programming differential in to the transmitter to get symmetrical aileron deflection may be necessary.

-Scott
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Old Apr 21, 2010, 06:44 PM
Scott Stoops
sukhoi26mx's Avatar
United States, CO, Longmont
Joined Mar 2002
8,412 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stagger_Wing View Post
Guys,

You donít want aileron differential on an aerobatic model because it will increase adverse yaw during inverted flight. As Dennis said if the airplane is not rolling axially it is probably because of elevator input. For aileron rolls make sure the airplane is unloaded before you start the roll and when doing slow rolls use the rudder to correct for any adverse yaw. Of course there is always the possibility that the linkages are not exactly the same for each aileron in which case programming differential in to the transmitter to get symmetrical aileron deflection may be necessary.

-Scott
uhhh..... differential can be the cure to adverse yaw, in addition to being the cause if setup incorrectly. Assuming symmetrical control throws while testing for axial rolls on a downline with the power off, differential can absolutely help. Depends on wing position.

Scott
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Old Apr 21, 2010, 07:07 PM
Postcards From The Purple Edge
tuppertn's Avatar
United States, OK, Sand Springs
Joined May 2007
3,919 Posts
Oh, c'mon, Scott...like you would know anything about this plane.



kendall

EDIT: I hope the sarcasm really came through there.
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Old Apr 21, 2010, 08:11 PM
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ambientech's Avatar
Central Texas
Joined Jun 2008
4,147 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fliprob17 View Post
I am not saying this is the case.......but if anyone was running an older 6200 and had a habit of using the LVC as their "timer" the older 6200's would reboot/lose signal. I've got two handfuls of the older 6200 with hundreds of flights each, no issues, but I always change my LVC to one cell count below what I am actually flying so it never kicks in, flying by timer there's no risk to the battery anyway.
+1

I have a 6200 that if I hit lvc it would glitch. I just don't hit lvc anymore and it is fine. Everyone thought I was crazy, saying it was impossible because pack voltage but now I know I'm not alone.
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Old Apr 21, 2010, 08:17 PM
Go guerrilla
jfv61's Avatar
Austin, TX
Joined Jul 2005
4,899 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fliprob17 View Post
...I always change my LVC to one cell count below what I am actually flying so it never kicks in...
Amen! Disadvantages of LVC far outweigh any benefits.
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Old Apr 21, 2010, 08:24 PM
For the Birds
Stagger_Wing's Avatar
California
Joined Jul 2004
400 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by sukhoi26mx View Post
uhhh..... differential can be the cure to adverse yaw, in addition to being the cause if setup incorrectly. Assuming symmetrical control throws while testing for axial rolls on a downline with the power off, differential can absolutely help. Depends on wing position.

Scott

Ok, now Iím curious. I can see how wing position affects roll performance, but I donít see how it can affect adverse yaw. Can you elaborate on this a little?

Thanks,

Scott
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Old Apr 21, 2010, 11:29 PM
Scott Stoops
sukhoi26mx's Avatar
United States, CO, Longmont
Joined Mar 2002
8,412 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stagger_Wing View Post
Ok, now I’m curious. I can see how wing position affects roll performance, but I don’t see how it can affect adverse yaw. Can you elaborate on this a little?

Thanks,

Scott
Wing position doesn't affect adverse yaw (to the best of my knowledge), but it affects axial roll performance which is what we're really talking about here. I could care less why my model doesn't roll axially (i.e. adverse yaw, excessive effective dihedral, undesirable wing position, etc), but I do want to know the solution for it. That solution is generally found in non-symmetrical aileron throw, or differential. It can also be found in vertical and lateral CG adjustments, although both are dramatically less effective and are not commonly required.

FWIW, the general complaint I hear against differential is that it varies when rolling from upright than inverted. To counter, I offer that ALL testing for axial rolling should be done on a vertical line where there is no up/down dilemma in the rolling sense. In a vertical line, the wing is unloaded and rolls as purely as the airframe allows. By testing in that condition, you're seeing the true roll axis from which changes to aileron throw should be made. All other natural rolling qualities, be they CG or side area driven while rolling in horizontal flight, should be compensated for with rudder and elevator.

Scott
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Old Apr 22, 2010, 12:15 AM
wrecklessly misspeling stuff..
tuck's Avatar
United States, CA, Citrus Heights
Joined Feb 2009
1,008 Posts
oThanks Scott, its nice to have a 3dh frame design engineer/ perfecter, answering my green guy questions thoroughly.

Yes Dennis I am interested, acouple of items take priority first. I,ll pm you when I'm ready to buy. How the SC?
Zeb
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Last edited by tuck; Apr 22, 2010 at 12:25 AM.
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Old Apr 22, 2010, 02:04 AM
For the Birds
Stagger_Wing's Avatar
California
Joined Jul 2004
400 Posts
Thanks Scott
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Old Apr 22, 2010, 10:54 AM
KB3VOJ
cherokee180c's Avatar
USA
Joined Sep 2007
2,591 Posts
+1 on the 6200's I have 4 of them flying for over a year in 2 planes and a 500 and 50 size helicopter with never a single glitch. I always fly by a timer though and never get anywhere near LVC. I use an Eagle Tree flying very agressively to get the average worst case amp draw and then set my timer to leave a full 20% capacity left in the pack. I rarely even get to the 20% level as my setup flights are truly worst case scenarios. Batteries happy, aircraft happy, Me happy!
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Old Apr 22, 2010, 11:11 AM
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STANG KILLA SS's Avatar
Killeen TX
Joined Dec 2006
1,441 Posts
great tip on the vertical test scott. little tidbits like that are so helpful to us mortals.
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Old Apr 22, 2010, 01:02 PM
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Dennis C's Avatar
Grass Valley California
Joined Jun 2004
2,469 Posts
Again for those interested in getting the most out of the extra 330, or for that matter any of your planes

ever wonder why it pulls to the left on your verticle's or pulls to the right on an inside loop, but to the left when you fly it negative. or why you need down elevator when you set up to land, or why it is baloon's out of you down line before you get to the blender. Or why it rolls out at the top of your stall turn,



Get Scott's book on Mastering Radio Control, google for Peter Goldsmiths trimming tips, or find Chip Hyde's trimming secrets.

Better yet read them all. It is amazeing how much easier it is to fly a properly trimmed airplane. One tha does what you want, when you want it.

Trim it, Mix it and then fly it. You will be happy

Dennis
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Old Apr 22, 2010, 08:35 PM
wrecklessly misspeling stuff..
tuck's Avatar
United States, CA, Citrus Heights
Joined Feb 2009
1,008 Posts
Good advice
My flying skills improved tremindously from doing a bit of reading on flying techniques. I've just skimmed through setups and mixing.I should revisit those sections.
Zeb
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