Espritmodel.com Telemetry Radio
Reply
Thread Tools
Old May 02, 2010, 02:49 PM
Registered User
Sussex, UK
Joined Dec 2009
8 Posts
2 metre Watts Up

I was thinking that I might build some extra inner wing panels so that I could enter the 2 metre class if appropriate. Should I change the dihedral from 4 degrees ? Should I alter the plan form to reduce the wingtip chord size ?

Can you help with the rib profiles ?

With regards to you previous post, I had originally programmed my transmitter with the spoiler on the throttle stick and the motor on the right hand side slider but was worried that I might take the wrong action in an emergency like you witnessed last week. I have since changed it to the motor on the throttle stick which is what I am used to, and put the spoiler on the left hand slider.
#cherokee is offline Find More Posts by #cherokee
Reply With Quote
Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
Old May 03, 2010, 04:56 PM
Registered User
Essex BOF's Avatar
Joined Sep 2009
363 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by #cherokee View Post
I was thinking that I might build some extra inner wing panels so that I could enter the 2 metre class if appropriate. Should I change the dihedral from 4 degrees ? Should I alter the plan form to reduce the wingtip chord size ?

Can you help with the rib profiles ?

With regards to you previous post, I had originally programmed my transmitter with the spoiler on the throttle stick and the motor on the right hand side slider but was worried that I might take the wrong action in an emergency like you witnessed last week. I have since changed it to the motor on the throttle stick which is what I am used to, and put the spoiler on the left hand slider.
I think I made mention of doing this in an earlier post on this thread. As I was at a bit of a loose end, having been working on a retro project, I have decided to build a set of Innner Tip panels, to the dimensions as on the plan. This will make the tip 8" chord at the tip.

Might look a bit odd, but it will maximise the wing area, reducing it to 6" may look better, choice is yours.
The dihedral as shown on the plan is 4 degrees on each panel wing tube, giving 8 degrees inclusive, which should be OK with the reduced span.

The projected span flat would be 36" centre Panel plus 2 X 21" Tip panels with tip blocks = 78". Two Metre's = 78.5 inches. Making the tip blocks 1.25" instead of 1", would bring the span up to the 2 metre mark

If you want some profiles as they are now let me know by PM me

in regards to setting up spoilers V motor, I have always used 3 flight memories on the Mpx 3030,arranged that the throttle stick becomes my spoiler control on switching the in flight memory to the appropriate one.
This comes mainly from flying power with the motor on that stick & gliders using the same control for spoilers/crow braking. I fly Mode 1 BTW throttle on RH stick.
If I could not use this method, I would plump for the motor on a switch & spoilers on the stick, as you need to be able to adjust the decent, when landing.
Essex BOF is online now Find More Posts by Essex BOF
Last edited by Essex BOF; Jun 25, 2010 at 03:47 PM.
Reply With Quote
Old May 11, 2010, 02:19 AM
Registered User
Essex BOF's Avatar
Joined Sep 2009
363 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by #cherokee View Post
I was thinking that I might build some extra inner wing panels so that I could enter the 2 metre class if appropriate. Should I change the dihedral from 4 degrees ? Should I alter the plan form to reduce the wingtip chord size ?

Can you help with the rib profiles ?
Have started the 2 Metre Tips as I described, see pictures attached.
These will plug into existing centre panel.
Essex BOF is online now Find More Posts by Essex BOF
Reply With Quote
Old May 11, 2010, 06:38 AM
Registered User
Joined Mar 2010
18 Posts
Modifications

Quote:
Originally Posted by Essex BOF View Post
The main idea behind it was to create a model to compete or sport fly, that would not cost a fortune to build, whilst using materials that are readily available.
Hi Brian, thanks for your previous reply regarding airfoil section, I have decided to stick with MH32 for now.
I believe that the original Watts Up used a fibreglass fuselage, therefore you redesigned the build to incorporate a fuselage which is more easily constructed.
Did your original arrangement use the same servo arrangement or have you used conventional configuration with servos inside the fuselage?
I originally researched the Bubble Dancer, but chose your design for simplicity. However, I am altering a few things which I prefer of the Bubble Dancer, mainly that I have altered the wing layout to include a LE taper similar to the Bubble Dancer, and would like to fit the rudder/elevator servos inside the fuselage.
I have started to prepare my own wood pack for the build, and would appreciate your input at this stage.
Briefly, did you make any other modifications from the original in this version?
FYI - I found that the Turnigy 540L 810 kV motor which you recommended seems to be critical of speed controller choice. I suggest to use the Turnigy range of controllers with this motor as this solved the problem. The motor originally would not start.
Thermal Rider is offline Find More Posts by Thermal Rider
Reply With Quote
Old May 11, 2010, 08:48 AM
Registered User
Essex BOF's Avatar
Joined Sep 2009
363 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thermal Rider View Post
Hi Brian, thanks for your previous reply regarding airfoil section, I have decided to stick with MH32 for now.
I believe that the original Watts Up used a fibreglass fuselage, therefore you redesigned the build to incorporate a fuselage which is more easily constructed.
Did your original arrangement use the same servo arrangement or have you used conventional configuration with servos inside the fuselage?
I originally researched the Bubble Dancer, but chose your design for simplicity. However, I am altering a few things which I prefer of the Bubble Dancer, mainly that I have altered the wing layout to include a LE taper similar to the Bubble Dancer, and would like to fit the rudder/elevator servos inside the fuselage.
I have started to prepare my own wood pack for the build, and would appreciate your input at this stage.
Briefly, did you make any other modifications from the original in this version?
FYI - I found that the Turnigy 540L 810 kV motor which you recommended seems to be critical of speed controller choice. I suggest to use the Turnigy range of controllers with this motor as this solved the problem. The motor originally would not start.
I think there is a missomer occurring here along the line. The Watts Up, was an original design for the RCModelworld Magazine. Their spec stated that it had to be made from easily obtained materials, which ruled out the use of a moulded fuselage.
The model that I was flying then called the Alacrity, was not my design origanally, but Ray Paveley's, who was a fellow modelling friend & this uses a moulded fuselage, made by Ray personally. See link http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1180687
I subsequently modified the original, to increase the size by some 11%, which then became Alacrity Plus by name.

I have seen a picture posted in one mag, where it states that the original Alacrity had a wooden fuselage, this is not so, as all of the derivatives have used the original fuselage moulded version.

Therfore the servo arrangements on the Watts Up, are as I originally designed them to be.
The comparison to the Bubble Dancer/Ava, will always be made, but I did set out to be different, in that I wanted to use a V tail setup, but when I canvassed flyers who were flying electric gliders there preference was for a coventional X tail arrangement. I think if the V tail had been used, the comparison would not have been made or at least have been a lot less.
As a tail boom is used to save weight over a conventional fuselage, the mounting of the fin/tailplane, has few options. I dreamed up the pod to mount the tailplane on, which would double up for the mounting of the elevator servo & be more sustantial at the same time. Plus you only need to find room for 1 servo in the fin for the rudder. Also the underfin is prone to damage, if the model skids on landing, so getting rid of that is an advantage.

It was the the desire to NOT be quite like the Bubble Dancer, that led to the straight LE & swept forward TE. I had used swept forward wings before some 30+ years ago in a glider design called the Summer Wind, which was nice to fly. It also gives a different shape in the sky.
The wing of the BD is quite complex in my view to build & needs special carbon spar material. None of which is required in the Watts Up. It should be remembered that the BD was designed at the outset for winch launching with the attendant strength needed in the wing.
The one concession to the BD/Ava was the spoiler in the centre of the wing, as it made sense to put it there & operate with one servo, rather than split it on either side of the centre panel

If you mount the servo's in the fuselage, you would probably need to use closed loop on the elevator/rudder controls, to run down the boom. Will not be easy accessing the servos through the aperture in the upper keel lamination, under the wing.

The Turnigy 540L 810 kV motor recommendation, came about in the search for a cheap motor that some people were requesting, it would not neccessarily be my personal choice, as I prefer geared motor plus inn runners to boot. The Hyperion 3025 looks a better choice if I were going down the out runner route.

So to sum up the original Watts Up, is as it was published, apart from the larger wing tips & now the 2 metre panels under construction.
I still fly it a fair ammount, in as much as the Tx gets passed arround for other flyers to try it out, even beginners or flyers who have not been flying for some time, have all flown it, with no problems.
Essex BOF is online now Find More Posts by Essex BOF
Last edited by Essex BOF; May 12, 2010 at 08:53 AM.
Reply With Quote
Old May 12, 2010, 02:01 AM
Registered User
Joined Mar 2010
18 Posts
Many thanks Brian,

I had got the Watts Up confused with the Alacrity. Thankyou for clarity on the situation.

I shall reconsider my thoughts on the servo layout, after your advice.

Just to remind you that the Turnigy 540L V-Spec 810kv Inrunner Motor (www.hobbyking.com) is one of the cheapest options for this model, and therefore there may be a lot of people having the same speed controller problem.

Summer Wind? If only the weather was like that!

Cheers
Thermal Rider is offline Find More Posts by Thermal Rider
Reply With Quote
Old May 12, 2010, 03:46 AM
Registered User
Essex BOF's Avatar
Joined Sep 2009
363 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thermal Rider;15068624

Just to remind you that the Turnigy 540L V-Spec 810kv Inrunner Motor ([url
www.hobbyking.com[/url]) is one of the cheapest options for this model, and therefore there may be a lot of people having the same speed controller problem.

Summer Wind? If only the weather was like that!

Cheers
This is where forums like this are of use to all in the pursuit of info. Thanks for pointing that out as I personally would not have known this, as not using that motor myself

Many thanks
Essex BOF is online now Find More Posts by Essex BOF
Reply With Quote
Old May 12, 2010, 09:47 AM
Registered User
Essex BOF's Avatar
Joined Sep 2009
363 Posts
I still like the look of the Hyperion Z3025/10 or12, as a motor for the Watts Up, if I were to use an outrunner.

Although 37mm dia, has a tapered front to it which is a bonus in fitting.
Price is 42.95, from Robotbirds.See their site for full spec.
See attachment for picture
Essex BOF is online now Find More Posts by Essex BOF
Reply With Quote
Old May 12, 2010, 03:57 PM
Registered User
Joined Mar 2010
18 Posts
Yes I agree, the Hyperion Z3025-10 motors works out very well in MotoCalc, the figures show a climb rate of over 2000 feet/minute with a suitable sized propeller.
Thermal Rider is offline Find More Posts by Thermal Rider
Last edited by Thermal Rider; May 13, 2010 at 02:36 PM.
Reply With Quote
Old May 18, 2010, 03:10 AM
Registered User
Essex BOF's Avatar
Joined Sep 2009
363 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Essex BOF View Post
Have started the 2 Metre Tips as I described, see pictures attached.
These will plug into existing centre panel.
Update on the wing tips, now with infill between ribs, ready to apply tip sheeting.
Essex BOF is online now Find More Posts by Essex BOF
Reply With Quote
Old May 21, 2010, 07:00 AM
Registered User
Joined Jan 2010
22 Posts
test flew "watts up" last night, never built a model before, girlfriend built it for me
looks fantastic- flies fantastic - thanks brian
yeletah is offline Find More Posts by yeletah
Reply With Quote
Old May 21, 2010, 08:05 AM
Upwardly Mobile
mikegbogh's Avatar
Roodepoort, South Africa
Joined Aug 2007
1,036 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by yeletah View Post
test flew "watts up" last night, never built a model before, girlfriend built it for me
looks fantastic- flies fantastic - thanks brian
Well done, this is fantastic please post pictures ....of your girlfriend
does she have a sister who builds
Oh you can also post a few of your new ship if you want
Mike
mikegbogh is offline Find More Posts by mikegbogh
RCG Plus Member
Latest blog entry: ASH30Mi Finally maidened
Reply With Quote
Old May 21, 2010, 02:41 PM
Registered User
Essex BOF's Avatar
Joined Sep 2009
363 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by yeletah View Post
test flew "watts up" last night, never built a model before, girlfriend built it for me
looks fantastic- flies fantastic - thanks brian
Blimey, must be every modellers dream to find a woman who is interested in models & can build as well

Lets see some pictures, please
Essex BOF is online now Find More Posts by Essex BOF
Reply With Quote
Old May 24, 2010, 05:09 AM
Registered User
Essex BOF's Avatar
Joined Sep 2009
363 Posts
Robin Sleight was flying his Watts Up at the Bartletts E Soaring event yesterday 23rd May, where he told me of a modification he had made, that makes it easy to transport. He travels to Australia to visit family their during the year. To make it pack away in a box approx metre long, he retained the tail boom by securing with a nylon bolt as shown in picture. Picture was taken with model looking bit worse for wear, having made contact with the ground, harder than intended.
This required gluing the nose former back in, as shown in pictyure, plus a bit of cosmetic damage to the covering. Servo leads pass down either side of bolt.
Clever Idea, if travel space is limited
Essex BOF is online now Find More Posts by Essex BOF
Reply With Quote
Old May 25, 2010, 04:14 AM
Registered User
Joined Jan 2010
22 Posts
Glider built by girlfriend

I'll get some photos, it was one off (and the last) experiance for us both, she worked 2 hours a night for 7 months - snow on the garage roof etc - shes not interested in models or flying - shes very good at art - paints pictures etc. (I dont have the patience and attention to such detail)
yeletah is offline Find More Posts by yeletah
Last edited by yeletah; May 26, 2010 at 01:30 AM.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools