HobbyKing.com New Products Flash Sale
Reply
Thread Tools
Old Aug 29, 2009, 09:58 AM
Begin with end in mind...
power's Avatar
Eagle Lake, Minnesota
Joined Apr 2003
5,613 Posts
Build Log
New AP Platform... "PASSIVE"

Hi all, here is another platform I have been working on. I will call it "Passive" I am a firm believer that you need "slow" for good HD footage. So I have cut the fat to levels that "I" am even surprised with. To give you an idea about how much weight reduction I am talking about...here is an example.

My Heptad with the Samsung HMX-20 on board weighs in at 71 oz ready to fly. If I mount up the same camera on this bird the ready to fly weight is 54 oz!!!! This is with the same size/area wing. This reduces the wing loading by 2 full oz. The main difference in the construction methods from my prior designs are the usage of 1/64 ply for the main spar. This spar is also cut from 48" sheets to allow for single strips. The bottom fuse spine is one piece as well. The plane can be built from the 24" sheets but the 24" X 48" sheets from aircraft spruce.com are very reasonable and superior quality so I would choose the longer ply. The omitting of Depron skin simplifies the build as well as lowering cost. The wing cores I cut from (4) 20" blanks. There is a center joint on the main wing section.

I have been talking with Jeff a MWcores and he said he can produce the "cored" style wing. If there is an interest in this bird after I test it more I will consider posting plans and get them to Jeff.

My intentions for this design is to fly the not yet released Samsung HMX-U10, this camera weighs in at 95 grams, shoots 1080p, and takes 10mp stills!! All for around $200.00. the release date is 9/25/09 until then I am playing around with several cameras and will be giving feedback on how the plane handles. The little Filp is just for weight testing I borrowed it from my daughter for the maiden


PLANS : http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...6&postcount=79


PAYPAL DONATION: https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/websc...ton_id=4927955


Video Clips:

http://whispershots.smugmug.com/Aeri...64_rLD9z/Large




http://www.engadget.com/2009/07/14/s...utube-uploads/

Specs:
AUW Ready to fly without camera: 37 oz
AXI 2814-20
Prop APC 12-6E
TP 3s 1350 v2
ESC PH-45
Wing span: 80"
Wing area: 1200 sq in
Wing loading: with 5 oz camera 5.04 oz/sq in


The weight reduction comes from several different areas. They are as follows:

1. Special internally "Cored" wing reduced the wing weight by 20%
2. I am using the smaller/lighter AXI 2814-20 (kv 840) as opposed to the heavier 2820 series. This motor is right at home with 3s 1350 packs (100-110 grams) it turns the APC 12-6E at around 24- 25 amps
3. Honeycomb fuse with ply spine on the bottom reduces the fuse weight tremendously over the Depron sheeted version.
4. 3mm Tail feathers with 3M Blenderm hinging and carbon reinforcing reduced the tail feather weight by about 50%
5. EPP foam for wheels in place of the Polyethylene foam reduced the wheel weight by 50%
6. Using the LoRyder style 1/16 carbon rod method for pushrods in place of the .187 tubes reduced the pushrod weight by 1 full once.
7. 1/64 ply is used on pretty much everything except for the reinforcing on the gear, cam mount, and wing holds.

The Heptad is a very light plane with an 80" wing. Weight with all components including 3s 2100 pack and no camera is 54oz.

The Passive with all components including 3s 1350 pack and no camera comes in at 37 oz!! Guys...This plane is the same size as the Heptad with the exact same wing layout at over a pound lighter......
I did take it out for a test flight but I did not have a camera man, it is now the slowest plane I have in my hangar. I did loop it and managed to get a 12 min flight on the 1350 pack. I don't see it flying in over 10 mph wind but that
is not what this bird is designed for. The new motor provided plenty of poop for this bird. The fuse was a surprise to me as the bottom full width 1/64 ply spine added incredible stiffness to the structure. So much I opt not to include
any ply on the top of the fuse. Because of the size of the tail feathers and the thickness (3mm) the stab needed a few more carbon rods to hold things stiff. The entire airframe is very sound.

I will have some video footage the first chance I get, in the mean time here are some pics of the plane and some construction details.......


Mike
power is offline Find More Posts by power
Last edited by power; Feb 09, 2010 at 06:18 PM.
Reply With Quote
Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
Old Aug 29, 2009, 10:22 AM
No thrust...It'll bust...
troynh's Avatar
Troy, NH
Joined Sep 2006
4,375 Posts
Well done Mike! I love the wing. Can't wait to hear what your results are from the Samsung HMX-U10. Did you pre order?

-Tim
troynh is offline Find More Posts by troynh
RCG Plus Member
Latest blog entry: My Ghetto Tank
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 29, 2009, 11:17 AM
Balsa + glue + bluesky= fun
leaktech's Avatar
Phoenix AZ USA
Joined Jan 2009
815 Posts
Cool wing. Nice work on everything. Once again great images on the build. Thanks Mike, like learning from you.
James
leaktech is offline Find More Posts by leaktech
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 29, 2009, 11:23 AM
AP-stick
ggtronic's Avatar
Montreal
Joined Nov 2005
1,627 Posts
nice work ! interesting wing core construction
5.04 oz/sq in
Amazing work to show how-to... as usual
You really help us to learn... thanks

Samsung HMX-U10:good for compressed low res file...but
what about full screen 1080P ? Not shur it will match your
HMX20 video quality ?

i'm also in shopping mode for FULL HD 60fps camcorder ?

SANYO VPC-FH1
or
SAMSUNG HMX-H106 or ?

i have a special AV mission in october with this guy and i
need to find the best camcorder for both this job and for my RCplanes
ggtronic is offline Find More Posts by ggtronic
Last edited by ggtronic; Aug 29, 2009 at 12:31 PM.
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 29, 2009, 12:15 PM
Crash Test Dummy
e2346437's Avatar
United States, ME, Mapleton
Joined May 2005
907 Posts
Nice Mike, would be interested in buying a set of plans if you publish them.

Do you find that the uncovered fuse holes adversely affect flight?

Eric
e2346437 is offline Find More Posts by e2346437
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 29, 2009, 12:31 PM
Registered User
Steve Mills's Avatar
England
Joined Dec 2005
308 Posts
Well done Mike and thanks for posting.

Your ongoing development of this line is inspirational and shows what can be achieved.
Steve Mills is offline Find More Posts by Steve Mills
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 29, 2009, 12:37 PM
Registered User
Riverside, WA
Joined Mar 2008
226 Posts
Mike,
I can only get Type I EPS foam - the lowest density white beaded foam at home depot. Do you know what density foam you are using for fuselage and wings? Your source for purchase?

Ken
aperture is offline Find More Posts by aperture
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 29, 2009, 12:55 PM
JimKallinen's Avatar
New Ulm,MN,USA
Joined Nov 2007
452 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by ggtronic
nice work ! interesting wing core construction
5.04 oz/sq in
Amazing work to show how-to... as usual
You really help us to learn... thanks

Samsung HMX-U10:good for compressed low res file...but
what about full screen 1080P ? Not shur it will match your
HMX20 video quality ?

i'm also in shopping mode for FULL HD 60fps camcorder ?

SANYO VPC-FH1
or
SAMSUNG HMX-H106 or ?

i have a special AV mission in october with this guy and i
need to find the best camcorder for both this job and for my RCplanes

Just bought the sanyo xacti VPC FH1 a month ago. Have yet to fly it but am very impressed with it filming 1080P 60fps at the local county fair.

Combine Demo Final Part 1 Brown County Fair 08-14-2009 (8 min 14 sec)
JimKallinen is offline Find More Posts by JimKallinen
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 29, 2009, 01:02 PM
Smoke me a Kipper
fritzdecat's Avatar
Cedar Grove North Carolina
Joined Oct 2006
1,214 Posts
How about EPP foam for the wings ...then cored like you did?

My EPP Eagle has that and that wing is tough
fritzdecat is offline Find More Posts by fritzdecat
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 29, 2009, 02:39 PM
Begin with end in mind...
power's Avatar
Eagle Lake, Minnesota
Joined Apr 2003
5,613 Posts
Thanks guys,

Tim,

I had my finger on the Buy button but I like to see a few reviews before I order. I have been watching this cam since it first popped out and they usually send a few to Cnet, Engadget, and a few others to hash over before they release the real deal. Either way it looks promising. I will keep you posted on the details.


ggtronic,

I would agree that the footage may not equal my HMX-20 but this one weighs in at 95 grams and if it competes with the Flip hd it should look pretty darn good

e2346437,

I did think about the effects of the holes as well as the wing tips that are open. As is stands I did not notice anything at all out of the ordinary in my first 12 min flight. The plane flys very smoothly and you should see the throttle off decent... It almost drops straight down with out stalling.


Ken,

I am uncertain about the density as I have had different weights from the local Menards. The bead size differs at times making the foam vary in weight. I don't pay much attention to it anymore as it does not matter as far as make or break a design. I do prefer the lighter stuff but I take what they have on the shelf. I can weigh a 12 X 12 piece and see what I have.

fritzdecat,

EPP while it is tough, it is not as light. It also is very finicky when it comes to adhesives. There are few glues that will bond with great strength to EPP. The EPS is lighter, Gorrilla glue bonds incredibly well and it is a lot cheaper. The bond on the main spars is very critical for this wing design and I trust the EPS. As far as toughness goes if you are somewhat careful the wing is really not that vulnerable. I am still flying my first Solution wing

I am planning a trip out tomorrow morning so I should have some more feedback.



Mike
power is offline Find More Posts by power
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 29, 2009, 02:52 PM
No thrust...It'll bust...
troynh's Avatar
Troy, NH
Joined Sep 2006
4,375 Posts
Mike,

Do you think that this unit might not have I.S.?

Pre buy $179 at B&H.... I may end up being the guinea pig on this one.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc....html#features


-Tim
troynh is offline Find More Posts by troynh
RCG Plus Member
Last edited by troynh; Aug 29, 2009 at 03:11 PM.
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 29, 2009, 03:16 PM
Begin with end in mind...
power's Avatar
Eagle Lake, Minnesota
Joined Apr 2003
5,613 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by troynh
Mike,

Do you think that this unit might not have I.S.?

Pre buy $179 at B&H.... I may end up being the guinea pig on this one.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc....html#features


-Tim

It has no IS at all...it is a good thing


Mike
power is offline Find More Posts by power
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 29, 2009, 04:14 PM
Happy landings
Trondheim, Norway
Joined Jul 2007
672 Posts
Wow! Yet again you impresses me with your creativity. The wing core cutout, would not have thought about that myself Great job.. wish I could just jump straight at it and build one myself, but August has been a really busy month and September looks like it will follow up..

Anyway.. Yet again you prove to us that we generally overbuild our AP planes. If we crash, I would prefer the fuse to break, rather than damaging the expensive equipment onboard.

Do you think that the holes in the fuse would make it less influenced by cross wind? Could you test that on a windy day?

I flew my Solution today.. (I saw your PM when I got back in my car) in a really strong wind. Difficult to know how strong it was, but if I gained a bit altitude (not much really) and then cut power I could glide for over a minute before needing the motor again. It was a lot of fun, but also nerve wrecking. I had a video cam onboard, but the resulting video is just too jumpy for anybody but me to enjoy

Is it just added weight to the bottom of the fuse that will increase the stability in strong wind?

When I built my LoRyder wing I used 2 carbon strips instead of the ply spars. It's really strong and no flex. I don't know if the carbon is lighter, but I think it is.. It could probably me used on the bottom of the fuse as well?
paulrene is offline Find More Posts by paulrene
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 29, 2009, 04:15 PM
No thrust...It'll bust...
troynh's Avatar
Troy, NH
Joined Sep 2006
4,375 Posts
Quote:
It has no IS at all...it is a good thing
That's what I thought!
troynh is offline Find More Posts by troynh
RCG Plus Member
Latest blog entry: My Ghetto Tank
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 29, 2009, 04:20 PM
Registered User
Riverside, WA
Joined Mar 2008
226 Posts
Mike,
Don't bother with weighing a piece. I just was curious if the foam density was a deciding factor on your designs. I noticed that my original Solution wing I bought from you, and also wings I bought from Jeff @MWCores had tighter bead patterns than the stuff I bought from HomeDep (it is the lowest, Type I, 1.0 density). Guess it won't make too much difference in the end, and save a bit of weight.

ken


Mike wrote:
<Ken,
I am uncertain about the density as I have had different weights from the local Menards. The bead size differs at times making the foam vary in weight. I don't pay much attention to it anymore as it does not matter as far as make or break a design. I do prefer the lighter stuff but I take what they have on the shelf. I can weigh a 12 X 12 piece and see what I have.>
aperture is offline Find More Posts by aperture
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Category Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
My new AP platform gustabmo Aerial Photography 50 Apr 25, 2005 11:12 AM
My new AP Platform. Cebola Aerial Photography 40 Feb 24, 2005 06:26 PM
Cool New AP platform maybe? Minh Nguyen Aerial Photography 8 Nov 16, 2004 09:33 PM
New AP Platform Ursine Aerial Photography 4 Aug 26, 2004 08:42 PM
New AP platform kahnxx Aerial Photography 1 Jul 12, 2004 10:06 AM