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Old Oct 30, 2011, 02:28 PM
The figure "9" Specialist
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A Barrier Island in New Jersey, USA
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Ahhhhh... for the nostalgic smell of Ambroid cement and the week following its use picking the dried glue off my hands!

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Old Oct 30, 2011, 09:03 PM
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Interesting how this thread goes around and cycles back. First comment: c'mon, one can never have too many tools!!!!! Wood tools, metal tools, plastic tools, foam tools,........

Second, I think I recall that this has already been said earlier in the thread, but my observation is that the percentage of young folk who like to work with their hands hasn't changed much, but the things they make/do have changed as material technology changes. I have a couple of books I got through Lindsay Publications ( www.lindsaybks.com check them out if you haven't yet, they're a hoot!) on "things for boys to make" from the late 1800 and early 1900's, and they're fun to read, but most of the raw materials aren't even available now, but were commonplace then (like wooden packing crates for instance). Materials technology changes and the resourceful kids change with it. We're not gonna get all the kids to join in, or even a large percentage, but the ones with the aptitude, and desire will get into the hobby. Of course the latest material techology change is ready availability of cheap foam "board" like Dow and Owens Corning styrofoams and the ubiquitous dollar store readiboard foamcore, that kids (young and old) can easily and inexpensively get and tinker with just like they did with packing crates, tin kitchen utensils, etc in years past. I'd expect that a lot of the planes built in the early days were from sticks scrounged from other purposed materials just like we scrounge/use PBlll and dollar store foam today. For those who haven't found it yet, check out the Scratchbuilt foamies forum here on RCG. There is good representation of the younger folk as well as old geezers like me, and it's usually the most active thread on RCG. No ARF's or RTF's there (except for the occasional wing or other piece used as raw material for some guy's wild idea scratch build)
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Old Oct 30, 2011, 09:13 PM
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Originally Posted by springer View Post
Interesting how this thread goes around and cycles back. First comment: c'mon, one can never have too many tools!!!!! Wood tools, metal tools, plastic tools, foam tools,........

Second, I think I recall that this has already been said earlier in the thread, but my observation is that the percentage of young folk who like to work with their hands hasn't changed much, but the things they make/do have changed as material technology changes. I have a couple of books I got through Lindsay Publications ( www.lindsaybks.com check them out if you haven't yet, they're a hoot!) on "things for boys to make" from the late 1800 and early 1900's, and they're fun to read, but most of the raw materials aren't even available now, but were commonplace then (like wooden packing crates for instance). Materials technology changes and the resourceful kids change with it. We're not gonna get all the kids to join in, or even a large percentage, but the ones with the aptitude, and desire will get into the hobby. Of course the latest material techology change is ready availability of cheap foam "board" like Dow and Owens Corning styrofoams and the ubiquitous dollar store readiboard foamcore, that kids (young and old) can easily and inexpensively get and tinker with just like they did with packing crates, tin kitchen utensils, etc in years past. I'd expect that a lot of the planes built in the early days were from sticks scrounged from other purposed materials just like we scrounge/use PBlll and dollar store foam today. For those who haven't found it yet, check out the Scratchbuilt foamies forum here on RCG. There is good representation of the younger folk as well as old geezers like me, and it's usually the most active thread on RCG. No ARF's or RTF's there (except for the occasional wing or other piece used as raw material for some guy's wild idea scratch build)
I think you presented an excellent summation of things. Kids haven't changed, they just use different materials to express their creativity.

+1
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Old Oct 31, 2011, 05:25 AM
An itch?. Scratch build.
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South Wales U.K.
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Originally Posted by NoFlyZone View Post
I think you presented an excellent summation of things. Kids haven't changed, they just use different materials to express their creativity.

+1
Now the 'different materials' tends to have buttons or keys on them, and their 'creativity' appears on a small screen.

How about a free plan for a mobile phone made from balsa , would it catch on and get kids building them ?
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Old Oct 31, 2011, 05:39 AM
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Originally Posted by springer View Post
Interesting how this thread goes around and cycles back. First comment: c'mon, one can never have too many tools!!!!! Wood tools, metal tools, plastic tools, foam tools,........

Second, I think I recall that this has already been said earlier in the thread, but my observation is that the percentage of young folk who like to work with their hands hasn't changed much, but the things they make/do have changed as material technology changes. I have a couple of books I got through Lindsay Publications ( www.lindsaybks.com check them out if you haven't yet, they're a hoot!) on "things for boys to make" from the late 1800 and early 1900's, and they're fun to read, but most of the raw materials aren't even available now, but were commonplace then (like wooden packing crates for instance). Materials technology changes and the resourceful kids change with it. We're not gonna get all the kids to join in, or even a large percentage, but the ones with the aptitude, and desire will get into the hobby. Of course the latest material techology change is ready availability of cheap foam "board" like Dow and Owens Corning styrofoams and the ubiquitous dollar store readiboard foamcore, that kids (young and old) can easily and inexpensively get and tinker with just like they did with packing crates, tin kitchen utensils, etc in years past. I'd expect that a lot of the planes built in the early days were from sticks scrounged from other purposed materials just like we scrounge/use PBlll and dollar store foam today. For those who haven't found it yet, check out the Scratchbuilt foamies forum here on RCG. There is good representation of the younger folk as well as old geezers like me, and it's usually the most active thread on RCG. No ARF's or RTF's there (except for the occasional wing or other piece used as raw material for some guy's wild idea scratch build)
How do the changes that affect how people do things now, help with the thrust of the topic of this thread? I mean, I'm confused here! Some are insistant that building is dead and others are insistant that it is alive and well, just not doing things with the traditional materials!

I think it is a forgone conclusion that the younger generation is not interested in model; or, any type of aviation! The AMA is addressing this situation, as are the other aviation associations like the EAA. They have extracted their findings on the subject from cold hard facts, not best guesses.
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Old Oct 31, 2011, 04:06 PM
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Also, I have no problems with the youth of today being interested in what their interested in. When I was a kid, all the kids I hung out with built models. That was one of the tings we did with our free time. Without a doubt, times change and peoples interests change right along with the times.

Flying (General Aviation type) has gotten far beyond the fiancial capibilities of the average person! It's no wonder interest in this aspect of aviation has taken a hit. So, whether this next 10-20 years will see the end of model aviation, is anyone's guess.
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Old Oct 31, 2011, 07:50 PM
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How do the changes that affect how people do things now, help with the thrust of the topic of this thread? I mean, I'm confused here! Some are insistant that building is dead and others are insistant that it is alive and well, just not doing things with the traditional materials!

I think it is a forgone conclusion that the younger generation is not interested in model; or, any type of aviation! The AMA is addressing this situation, as are the other aviation associations like the EAA. They have extracted their findings on the subject from cold hard facts, not best guesses.
Young people not interested in aviation in any type? What on earth makes you think that? I don't think the air force and navy have ever had a shortage of wanna be fighter pilots and there is a whole generation of kids in the last 10 years who are now flying UAVs in the military.

As far as GA its always getting more and more expensive and unwise to attempt as a career but when I was taking lessons for a little while 10 years ago there were lots of (other) 20 somethings in my class who were aviation nerds and wanted to fly like me.
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Old Oct 31, 2011, 08:00 PM
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Young people not interested in aviation in any type? What on earth makes you think that? I don't think the air force and navy have ever had a shortage of wanna be fighter pilots and there is a whole generation of kids in the last 10 years who are now flying UAVs in the military.

As far as GA its always getting more and more expensive and unwise to attempt as a career but when I was taking lessons for a little while 10 years ago there were lots of (other) 20 somethings in my class who were aviation nerds and wanted to fly like me.
Excellent post!

It seems the ones most lamenting the bane of youngters involved in model aviation are the very ones most close minded in their assessment of what exactly constitutes an interest in aviation to begin with.
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Old Oct 31, 2011, 09:27 PM
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Originally Posted by seeingeyegod View Post
Young people not interested in aviation in any type? What on earth makes you think that? I don't think the air force and navy have ever had a shortage of wanna be fighter pilots and there is a whole generation of kids in the last 10 years who are now flying UAVs in the military.

As far as GA its always getting more and more expensive and unwise to attempt as a career but when I was taking lessons for a little while 10 years ago there were lots of (other) 20 somethings in my class who were aviation nerds and wanted to fly like me.
I am wrong. You are correct, I overlooked miltary aviation, which is maybe the best way to get into aviation now days.
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Old Oct 31, 2011, 09:56 PM
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I am wrong. You are correct, I overlooked miltary aviation, which is maybe the best way to get into aviation now days.
Not necessarily.

Traditionally, the military academy graduates get first pass at available flying slots. Even at that, *sometimes* a lot of weight is placed on class placement (1st in class, 2nd, etc.). In recent years, not all academy graduates had the option to go to flight training. Not enough slots. Plenty of UAVs though. A couple of years ago the USAF's budget for UAVs was larger than for manned aircraft. Several years ago Boeing was in a joint project with the USAF to develope a single-pilot transport - in the interest of requiring less manned crew. The project is pretty quiet now and the speculation is that why is there a need for a pilot at all? A collision of technology as it were.

Reserve and National Guard unit pilots are still traditionally staffed by ex-full time pilots, with *very* few flying slots going to non-military ("street") candidates.

An example. There was a young man in my son's Boy Scout troop. He voiced an interest in flying in the military. He was a high school varsity football place kicker, an Eagle Scout, and placed above 1200 on the SATs. He applied to the Air Force Academy, but did not get an assignment. What he did get was the opportunity to attend the Prep School for a year (a program to see if the candidate can "hack it") and made it into the Academy. He made it into the top ten-percent of his class (2007) but there were no flying slots available to him. Being in the top ten-percent did not garner the horsepower.

At one time, a common demoninator of the military pilot is that they were involved in model aviation in their youth. It seemed to be a prerequisite. Not any more, which means that it is no longer an advantage to a way to a means.

EJWash
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Old Nov 01, 2011, 05:35 AM
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The point I'm trying to make is that the youth of today are not interested in aviation like they were when I was growing up. General aviation is too expensive and military aviation is almost unattainable, so why would they be interested? The only affordable aviation venue available to them is Model Aviation and like I've said, the facts are youth are not becoming involved! If they where, why would the various aviation associations be pursuing youth with such impetus?

The thrust of this thread has been an attempt to get people to build and asking for ideas on how to accomplish this.
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Old Nov 01, 2011, 08:11 AM
An itch?. Scratch build.
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Originally Posted by Mode One View Post
I am wrong. You are correct, I overlooked miltary aviation, which is maybe the best way to get into aviation now days.
Going by some of the videos and reports on military aircraft of the future, most of those youngsters interested in a military aviation career, should get into RC models now. As the future looks more likely they will be 'piloting' UAV type aircraft from the ground, rather than sitting in them.
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Old Nov 01, 2011, 08:21 AM
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I'm not seeing that here. I think kids are starting to get into R/C and planes now more than a few years ago. My son is 13 and got into flying on his on and got me back into it with his enthusiasm.

One thing, and I think this is kind of like the auto industry, most newer planes look similar and well kind of boring compared to the past.

I think building has hit a peak low and will either stay the same or more people will get involved.

Robert

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mode One View Post
The point I'm trying to make is that the youth of today are not interested in aviation like they were when I was growing up. General aviation is too expensive and military aviation is almost unattainable, so why would they be interested? The only affordable aviation venue available to them is Model Aviation and like I've said, the facts are youth are not becoming involved! If they where, why would the various aviation associations be pursuing youth with such impetus?

The thrust of this thread has been an attempt to get people to build and asking for ideas on how to accomplish this.
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Old Nov 01, 2011, 11:05 AM
An itch?. Scratch build.
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Just an addition to my post #1296 showing the start of a 'Spitfire' build, but in Depron and electric, instead of balsa and IC to save a load of weight. The pictures in that post showed how I intended doing the wings.

Well here's how the fuselage is looking. It's still very basic as I am sort of making it up as I go along, but still based on the free plan.
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Old Nov 01, 2011, 04:55 PM
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I see a lot of foam builds that are covered with balsa sheeting... anyone ever build a balsa structure and cover it with foam sheeting?
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