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Old Sep 06, 2009, 02:59 AM
Build it again, Sam!
Harpye's Avatar
Germany
Joined Oct 2004
4,091 Posts
Nice plane! but one question - As you talked about to bring building technique to people: do you think a plane of this style weight and flying behaviour is suited for those who are not yet addicted to RTF ( I ment beginners)?

My experience is, that those who build that much are not the same flying much so I would see this model as a challenge for advanced piloting builders
but as they are mostly just addicted to speedy RTFs or are just building for years ( gathering experience in piloting over time)
this would be difficult to get them from the track of "buy and fly"... and as willing builders start to do your plane when just beginning with the hobby - as they are not yet "buyers" they will have to wait some time until they have the abilitiy to fly this .. or do you want to place your kit between those borders. ( Sorry about the bad way of explanation, but my English is not that practized - hope you understand what I'm trying to say)...

Hansjoerg
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Old Sep 06, 2009, 06:43 AM
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South - Africa
Joined Nov 2007
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I was doing the crazy thing called thinking just now and I agree, it doen't help having a nice group build if we know that the people we want to get involved are nog experience builder or that the build would be outside of their flying abilaties.

So i was thinking along the lines of an on the net design and build with nothing fancy but it must still look like a aeroplane eg a basic trainer or "stick" shape. It should be a fast build so that they do not get bored with a long project along the way and with easy shape to cut and glue so that it could be build with a mininum of tools needed.

For example's sake: A "stick"tipe aeroplane has nise flat sides that are fairly easy to cut, glue and line up - during this time of the build the "students" then have the option to round the corners a bit if they want to. The wing is a nice straight planform withe the same ribs right through, we can put on wing tips or not, it could be flat or with dehedral, and all of the theory and prosesses could be explained as we go along.

But the big question stil are, how do we get them involved? Most of us that are reading this are into building already, how will we get them to read and join in on a build log?
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Old Sep 06, 2009, 08:52 AM
Build it again, Sam!
Harpye's Avatar
Germany
Joined Oct 2004
4,091 Posts
Getting people to build..

I just asked ... Rather no reply for the first 3 days,but after a week we were 24 and now are 35 entrants (- 2dropped due to other priorities)
My experience is that many in forum are readers but never starting an own thread as they dont believe that the can do something just give them a chance to work in a group and put them under pressure a bit so they don't think why something . As you also will recognize ... some people have some more time to effort and some engage way more than others. As ( hopefully) most of those guys feel in a true community they also work for the team
not just for themselves! E.g. one gathered materials which are available instead of Depron in US and Australia and sent them from Canada to me to test if they would suite, which is quite a service for the team as he got the original matierial available, another one reworked his documentation from an older workshop I did in the past in Germany and put it in here as a kind of guideline, another one suports us with translation into Russian language for another guy who does bit barely speek English, another one tried to organize a source for a special kind of tape which ich guess is optimum for this technique and another one who already took part in a former workshop assists with his experience! so many of the entrants proceed with open eyes for the global problems of the community ... so called "team effect" took part ... That is the fact which makes it maximum fun to me to work with those guys!! As you will read the first post in my built thread posted above you will find a link list with the recend build threads of every single entrant regarding his state of progress.
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Old Sep 06, 2009, 09:00 AM
Build it again, Sam!
Harpye's Avatar
Germany
Joined Oct 2004
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As the plane we do now is for bit advanced pilots

I also designed a cheap and easy to built/ repair plane for beginners ... I tested and built this plane with my 7 year old daughter ( 4,5 hours of built as I had to take a langer break in respect to her not approved patience...)

Material is below 10 Euro ( for a group built as you need half a sheet of depron to manage to do this ( 2,2 Euro) some 4x4mm woodbeam and a bit of ply

Equipement ( BL + 2 S 600mh ACCU * ESC + 2Servos is below 30 Euro @ Hobbycity) adtitional RXTX and that is all

Afterwards she chose the colors and I did the paintjob

60cm Biplane below 200 Gram AUW - just Rudder and Elevator controlled
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Old Sep 06, 2009, 09:48 AM
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South - Africa
Joined Nov 2007
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Just about what I had in mind. Although I would have thought of something a bit more involved and balsa, but it's just me thinking of the materials I'm used to. I don't do a lot of electrics as it is a bit expensive here.
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Old Sep 06, 2009, 10:03 AM
Build it again, Sam!
Harpye's Avatar
Germany
Joined Oct 2004
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When I started with my first plane ( Graupner RC Uhu ) I was 11 years old...
the plane scattered down inteh 3rd flight and I had no money to by new equipement! things have gone lots cheaper since then!
( I'd taken a looong break and just started 2000 again )

For RXTX is necessary I tried to get the rest of the functional material as cheap as possible... I like balsa but I guess foam is easier to replace and to repair as it is bendable without humidity and is able to be contact glued!!! and it is way cheaper, - as in our local hobbystore I would pay about 10times more for balsa as the same amount of 6mm styrene foam / Depron derivative...

Hobbycity prices for electrics......

Motor 6,8 $
Servo 2,5$ *2
2S600mAh 6$
ESC 10 A Turnigy 10 Euro
As summed is far below 30 Euro + transfer but for a Group built...
as RXTX are available the plane should come out below 50 bucks as a group built 60$..70 $ as you have to get single packages of glue and bowden wires etc.... but this means ready to fly!! - all equipped

For import you have to add VAT and transfer which is quite some money but the stuff sold in Germany is also quite expensive ( Flyware e..g. is a local manufacturer one of the most effordable motors is 60$ + 12Aesc far abouve100$ similar of much less quality is 12 Euro in Hobbycity + 16 Euro / controller so 35..40 $ for both !!!
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Last edited by Harpye; Sep 06, 2009 at 10:16 AM.
Old Sep 06, 2009, 11:24 AM
Scale Builder
United States, AZ, Litchfield Park
Joined Jul 2002
2,542 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harpye
Nice plane! but one question - As you talked about to bring building technique to people: do you think a plane of this style weight and flying behaviour is suited for those who are not yet addicted to RTF ( I ment beginners)?
Hansjoerg
As I stated in my first post the target audience for my group build is guys who have some building experience but want to get into building scale, warbirds in particular. However, the same general idea could be applied to any type of model. For example, I have little experience working with Depron but absolutely love some of the incredible work done by folks on this board with that material. I would love to see a group build of some sort of advanced Depron based design. That is just one of a thousand examples. Now I have no idea yet if this will or won't work to draw guys into building but it seemed like a fun way to try. Besides, I was building the Hellcat anyway!
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Old Sep 06, 2009, 11:51 AM
Build it again, Sam!
Harpye's Avatar
Germany
Joined Oct 2004
4,091 Posts
Don't misunderstand me ! I like your bird very much ! But I guess that one that has tasted RTF low effort ( low fun, building) and is not reasonable forced to build for afterwards be able to fly will be difficult to get into a built as he just reached his target ( for some bucks more ) without thinking that the way towards the target of flying, could also be fun... I know - a very difficult to understand explanation of a very simple thing..... ( but think - I'm German ). Perhaps take it this way -.. as you have a chauffeur, you will be brought to everywhere .. it would be difficult to tell you that the effort of walking could mean fun!!!
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Old Sep 06, 2009, 12:13 PM
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EJWash1's Avatar
United States, WA, Hoodsport
Joined Mar 2008
5,291 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harpye
Perhaps take it this way -.. as you have a chauffeur, you will be brought to everywhere .. it would be difficult to tell you that the effort of walking could mean fun!!!
Well said! On target!

Trust me, when the group build begins, there are going to be more than one that will want to join the group. As you said about this thread, participation was slow at first, and built steam.

EJWash
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Old Sep 06, 2009, 12:22 PM
Registered User
South - Africa
Joined Nov 2007
232 Posts
So lets get a design on the table, I can't wayt to see if I can get a few folks on this side involved
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Old Sep 06, 2009, 12:25 PM
Build it again, Sam!
Harpye's Avatar
Germany
Joined Oct 2004
4,091 Posts
As the "speed on effect" already takes part..

As this ( below is to be setup as a proto) I just passed along simple cut and glue parts but as soon as the first had assembled the former tool they proceeded producing thskins of the fuse ( this is the rather unconventional part I mentioned about in the last posts...) ...

as it should be!! Forgetting about limitations of the own mind!!!

Hansjoerg

e.g.about his one....
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/attac...mentid=2739537
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Old Sep 07, 2009, 04:40 AM
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RogueTitan's Avatar
In Teh Garage (Rossville, GA. USA)
Joined Sep 2008
3,351 Posts
Ya I think Harpye has the right Idea with his foamy work shops and hope he continues posting his work shops of other air craft designs
although I am not a participant in the group build I have been following the threads closely and have picked up a lot of gold nuggets concerning working with Depron Foam and good building techniques and I will eventually get around to building this awesome Russian Mig 3 fighter in the future because it is one sweet plane for sure.

I built a static line Mig 3 many years ago from white single ply corrugated card board.

I have noticed no one builds with card board any more since Depron, closed cell and EPP foam was introduced to the RC plane building community.
or are there still people building with card board?
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Old Sep 07, 2009, 04:53 AM
Build it again, Sam!
Harpye's Avatar
Germany
Joined Oct 2004
4,091 Posts
Depron is far cheaper .. but cardboard ( guess you mean the sandwich material) is still used for architectural purposes as creating models from buildings ( better surface) easy to coat with fine sands to imitate houses rough structure..... as long as Nemecheck CAD is not taking this job
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Last edited by Harpye; Sep 07, 2009 at 04:59 AM.
Old Sep 07, 2009, 04:55 AM
Foam Av8r
RogueTitan's Avatar
In Teh Garage (Rossville, GA. USA)
Joined Sep 2008
3,351 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by EINA
I don't do a lot of electrics as it is a bit expensive here.
WOW Really?
it is just the other waay around in the US, I can build 3 complete RTF park flyer foamys for the price of one complete RTF fuel balsa model. not to mention I dont have to buy expensive fuel and don't have all the greasy clean up after a day of flying.
as far as the flight box is concerned you have a cheap 12 volt Wally World motor cycle battery and a charger for recharging NICD battery's and that is it unless you want to bring along a couple of cold drinks
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Old Sep 07, 2009, 05:07 AM
Foam Av8r
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In Teh Garage (Rossville, GA. USA)
Joined Sep 2008
3,351 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harpye
Depron is far cheaper .. but cardboard ( guess you mean the sandwich material) is still used for architectural purposes as creating models from buildings ( better surface) easy to coat with fine sands to imitate houses rough structure..... as long as Nemecheck CAD is not taking this job
Actually it is basically the same kind of card board that boxes are made from but the paper is bleached white and a smoother shiny surface. bulkheads, wing ribs and and other structural parts were made from double sided card board for stiffness and strength but the card board used for skinning the wing and fuse was single sided because it was pliable for making the contours of the wing and fuse.
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