Espritmodel.com Telemetry Radio
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Old Feb 05, 2011, 11:20 AM
hmm, I could modify that
scratchwerk's Avatar
flyover country
Joined Dec 2007
184 Posts
Mode One

I don't have a solution to your original question. But, one of my other hobbies is watching people
and seeing what makes them tick.

I've noticed over the last 15 years that people have changed. Not just in the hobby world. To put it bluntly, they're getting stupid.
I work in the beverage service industry, and own a small N gauge train business. In my real job, some of the problems can be fixed over the phone. Saving me a 4 hour round trip
to spend 30 seconds to flip a switch a couple times. Of the 80 or so customers I had 10 years ago, there were about 50 I could call and have them flip the switch. Now I have over 100 customers. Only ONE is able to flip any switch.
In the train business, I sell detail parts and body shells, "kits". Business has been droping off
steadly since we purchased it in '99. Most customers want a well detailed locomotive, but don't feel they have the skill. Most details can be applied with only a pinvise drill and a small drop of CA. Yet this is "too complicated". They will wait till a manufacturer makes what they want "Ready To Run".

This "decline" in builders has left very few people to talk to at the hobby shop.
I grew up having to make things I wanted, mainly due to lack funds. Then my tastes started
running toward the "oddball". Nobody made the items I wanted, so again I made them. After awhile I was doing it more for enjoyment than necessity.

Now that I'm getting back into RC, helis mainly, I noticed that I've changed. I'm looking for RTF. I miss the building, but the more gray hairs I get, the less motivation I seem to have.

People are looking for the quick fix, not savoring the journey.
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Old Feb 05, 2011, 11:25 AM
Hey Guys, Watch This.......
mike2663's Avatar
USA, TX, El Paso
Joined Dec 2003
6,040 Posts
Ya know that just might be the best explanation I've ever read. The sad part is that it's just going to get worse. I'm not trying to be doom and gloom here just realistic.
Mike
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Old Feb 05, 2011, 12:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scratchwerk View Post
Mode One

I don't have a solution to your original question. But, one of my other hobbies is watching people
and seeing what makes them tick.

I've noticed over the last 15 years that people have changed. Not just in the hobby world. To put it bluntly, they're getting stupid.
I work in the beverage service industry, and own a small N gauge train business. In my real job, some of the problems can be fixed over the phone. Saving me a 4 hour round trip
to spend 30 seconds to flip a switch a couple times. Of the 80 or so customers I had 10 years ago, there were about 50 I could call and have them flip the switch. Now I have over 100 customers. Only ONE is able to flip any switch.
In the train business, I sell detail parts and body shells, "kits". Business has been droping off
steadly since we purchased it in '99. Most customers want a well detailed locomotive, but don't feel they have the skill. Most details can be applied with only a pinvise drill and a small drop of CA. Yet this is "too complicated". They will wait till a manufacturer makes what they want "Ready To Run".

This "decline" in builders has left very few people to talk to at the hobby shop.
I grew up having to make things I wanted, mainly due to lack funds. Then my tastes started
running toward the "oddball". Nobody made the items I wanted, so again I made them. After awhile I was doing it more for enjoyment than necessity.

Now that I'm getting back into RC, helis mainly, I noticed that I've changed. I'm looking for RTF. I miss the building, but the more gray hairs I get, the less motivation I seem to have.

People are looking for the quick fix, not savoring the journey.
Wow, could not agree with you more! I was a model railroader in HO, until Horizon Hobbies bought out Athearn and Model Die Casting (MDC). Horizon recognized the new Model Railroaders coming into the hobby lacked the ability; or, interest to take 15 minutes of their precious time to assemble a simple freight car kit that sold for $3.50! They understood that if they put it together and add a few details, they could sell the car for $22.50 and in a short period of time Athearn and MDC kits were no longer available.

That was the trigger that caused me to come back to R/C! The reasoning was that as long as there was balsa available, I could still build R/C airplanes from plans. As of today, this idea still holds true and was the impetus for this thread.
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Last edited by Mode One; Feb 05, 2011 at 05:33 PM.
Old Feb 05, 2011, 06:24 PM
Crash Tester
Tuctronics's Avatar
USA, WA, Walla Walla
Joined Sep 2010
149 Posts
I scratch build and kit build and ARF and so on.
I feel that balsa planes fly better as there is grain in the material allowing the choice of strength direction. Such as a wing spar. But also, Carbon fiber spars are my current favorite
Here is what must be done.
Laser cut parts are a must. Carbon fiber could be included, but only if cut to proper length. Cut the long parts to length. Cut the sheeting to fit. CNC machines work for lube and electricity. Everything should be ready to glue on. Even vacuum formed parts.
Designs need to be modified to allow the model to be built with more interlocking parts.
Also, three pieces forming a corner could form all the right angles needed to have a straight plane when done. I still build Guillows spar kits and add RC gear. (See my blog) But I must say that if I crash a balsa plane, it is a sad day. If I smash up an RTF, it is no emotional loss. Rebuilding planes of balsa can get people into building with balsa. Since many ARFs are more and more wood these days, maybe working with wood will become in favor again. Foam is too flimsy for me. (Except for the Multiplex Easystar) So I guess I have no opinion either.
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Old Feb 06, 2011, 07:29 AM
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Die cut, machine cut, laser cut makes no difference to me, they all work! So I don't agree that laser cut parts are a must! Also disagree with parts needing to be interlocking!

However, having said this, if these parameters would get people building, I could agree. The problem is; this is exactly what IS available at this time and I don't see it making much difference!
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Old Feb 06, 2011, 09:29 AM
Hamburger Eatin' Fool
TomCrump's Avatar
Traverse City, Michigan
Joined Dec 2005
11,180 Posts
Laser cut parts are only as accurate as the plans they are cut fom. There is no reason that hand cut parts can't be just as accurate.

These parts, were all cut by hand. By hand, I mean with a jigsaw, bandsaw, and scroll saw.
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Old Feb 07, 2011, 10:04 PM
Ochroma Lagopus Tekton
Fly Wheel's Avatar
Blackstock, South Carolina
Joined Sep 2007
1,827 Posts
I agree with Mode One. if all the parts are precut with such precision that all that is necessary is to stick them together and add a drop of glue, then how different are they from an Easy Star other than the number of parts involved?

I just finished the woodwork on my first real build, a Miss Stik, a "kit" that has almoost no precut parts of any kind. I had to do all the cutting and fitting myself before i could even reach for the glue bottle.

my next kit is going to be a Skimmer which has all the "shaped" parts precut, and even now I know it won't be as much fun or as rewarding as the Miss.

However, this is because I like working with my hands. I'm not really happy unless they are all callused and I have at least one scab. And unless your prospective builder has the desire to make things, there is no way you're going to "convert" him or her. It's the proverbial horse and water scenerio.
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Old Feb 08, 2011, 01:07 PM
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South West, UK
Joined Sep 2009
85 Posts
I have literally just started my first scratch build (first build full stop after a few artf's). I have to be honest, even with the Internet at my fingertips I am struggling to find answers to basic questions, and any really useful documentation on 'how bits go together'. I am lucky to have a few experienced designers/builders quite close to hand, as well as Previous CAD experience.

I would say a good way to start your quest would be to knock up a wiki style 'how to design and build an RC plane' and get it well publicised. I have asked questions regarding design and build on this forum and others and so far not had a Single useful answer (other than one member, who I am now in e-mail contact with). A repository of knowledge would probably answer many of my questions before they were asked. I'd be happy to contribute myself given a few months, lol.

For the record, I am drawing out the fuselage in CAD at the moment, already have the ribs cut after drawing them out in Compufoil and set out dry.

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Old Feb 08, 2011, 01:34 PM
Hamburger Eatin' Fool
TomCrump's Avatar
Traverse City, Michigan
Joined Dec 2005
11,180 Posts
Sometimes (most times?) it's easier to do something, than to explain how to do it.

Bring your design to my shop. I'll build it for you, and design parts when necessary. Ask me how to do the same thing, I probably wouldn't be of much use.
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Old Feb 08, 2011, 04:07 PM
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Wildc4rd, nice wing you have building there, what is the airplane it will be attached to? If I can be of service, do not hesitate to PM me with your questions, I will do my best to help you!
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Old Feb 08, 2011, 08:40 PM
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South - Africa
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Wildc4rd, I like your idee with the wiki but... otherwise than your experiance I have always received or found good answers here on RCG. The thing is that everybody have their own idees and ways of doing things hence the different answers witch could be confusing to a newby.
This brings me to the topic. If a newby ask a question, he would most probably get a few different answers and if he is like a lot of you out there (not ment in a bad way) he would want to do it right so he is stuck.
Like it was said here so many times, a good sequence for a beginner could maybe be to do an ARF first, then precut kit and then scratch.

If youve got questions you should take MODE ONE up on his offer, great man with lots of knowledge and has help me with some technical stuff in the past.
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Old Feb 08, 2011, 09:19 PM
Ochroma Lagopus Tekton
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Blackstock, South Carolina
Joined Sep 2007
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The up side to the many answers to th same question is that what works great for one builder may not be as manageable for another. I like the multiple answers because there is more likely to be that one response that lights the bulb in my head and makes me say "I can do that". Or it's explained in a way by one person that makes what might otherwise be confusing become clear.
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Old Feb 09, 2011, 12:47 AM
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wildc4rd's Avatar
South West, UK
Joined Sep 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mode One View Post
Wildc4rd, nice wing you have building there, what is the airplane it will be attached to? If I can be of service, do not hesitate to PM me with your questions, I will do my best to help you!
Its going on a 133% (ish) scale model of a Gangster 62. (which I already have and fly). It probably would have been wise to build a few kits first I agree, but there isn't a kit for what I really wanted.

If you are genuinely happy with that arrangement Mode One, I will take you up on your offer of a few PM's. I have worked thorough some of the issues myself, but there are still a few queries outstanding.
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Old Feb 09, 2011, 05:59 AM
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Not a problem and looking forward to it. Please understand I'm still a working stiff, so a large percentage of my time is taken up this activity. However, I'll get back to you as soon as I can.

Eina said some very nice things about me and they are certainly appreciated!

I've always felt there to be good information on the forums, also.

I'm not familiar the Gangster. There's a lot of airplanes today, I'm not specifically knowledgeable about. However, how there built, I probably can "muddle" through!

I'm glad we have another builder amongst us, wildc4rd!
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Old Feb 09, 2011, 03:11 PM
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I have yet to build a plane from kit or scratch. I want to, but time money etc… is hard to come by. My father on the other hand has numerous kits and scratch planes.

What I think happened is exactly what Zor said way at the beginning of this thread, our society “progressed” past the building. It all started with the industrial revolution. Instead of one person building a whole car start to finish they learned one job and did that over and over. Look new homes being built. 150 years ago people were building their own log cabins and brick homes, then along came contractors or specialists that got hired to build single homes, now we have large companies building house as fast and cheap as they can (at least here in Phoenix).

As soon as the hobby companies found they could make real money on this hobby the big companies bought the smaller companies and became really big companies. Then they learned that labor was cheaper outside the US and UK and made stuff there. Then …well you know what happened.

I will say though that I bet there are more kit/scratch builders now than ever before, just a much smaller percentage of the modelers. I remember reading the magazines in the 90’s about how to keep the hobby going. I think they/we found the answer by making it less expensive and easier for more people to get started with ARF’s and “foreign” made cheap radios etc.. Now we have people concerned with the hobby of building going away. We cannot have it both ways.

I think there is a place in this hobby of RC modeling for both types of people, the builders and the ARF’ers. Just like there are fine furniture builders and people that shop at Ikea.

Sorry for the long post, I am just glad that we have options and that we can fly or build as we want…at least for now.
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