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Old Dec 24, 2010, 07:46 PM
Ochroma Lagopus Tekton
Fly Wheel's Avatar
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An aside question, I think there is at least one person in these groups that is/are involved in aeronautical design or construction, isn't there? Isn't building an actual, flyable model part of their education somewhere along the line, either as a requirement or perhaps some college competition of some sort?

If not, maybe it should be.
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Old Dec 25, 2010, 06:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Rusty-Gunn View Post
Some years back I sent a postal money order to RCM for a subscription, but later learned they were out of business. They did not send my money back, and I had misplaced my reciept for about five-six years. I've not persued the issue of getting the money back any further. I had made the assumption they were still printing magazines. Well, anyhoo, I read other r/c magazines, but have't collected them much, but have given some away.
After coming back to the hobby in 2005, I bought a couple of R/C Modeler magazines. One of the issues I bought, was a double issue, combining two months together. An explanation was given that I found somewhat revealing and thought maybe the magazine was in trouble. This prompted me to buy any further issues (one of which turned out to be the last) from the news stand. I saved myself from loosing money, this time. However, I have lost money plenty of times in similar scenarios with subscription, just happened to luck out this time. It can't help but feel like a rip-off, when it happens and I feel your pain!

I would tend to believe the RCM plans service to be a different entity then the magazine
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Last edited by Mode One; Dec 26, 2010 at 06:17 AM. Reason: Clarify, needed an (L) in Feel
Old Dec 25, 2010, 08:11 AM
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Don Stackhouse's Avatar
United States, OH, Bradford
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fly Wheel View Post
An aside question, I think there is at least one person in these groups that is/are involved in aeronautical design or construction, isn't there? Isn't building an actual, flyable model part of their education somewhere along the line, either as a requirement or perhaps some college competition of some sort?

If not, maybe it should be.
One of the things that really turned me off aout some of the college aero curriculums is how little actual aircraft design training they included.

There are some college-level competitions, such as the SAE Weight-Lifting Aircraft Design Competition. I've served as a judge for that, as well as advisor/consultant to teams at various colleges.

As far as being "involved in aeronautical design or construction", I've been involved in both, in both models and full-scale. I'm also not the only one here. And as I've mentioned before, every decent kit or ARF was at some point an original-design scratch-built model.
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Old Dec 25, 2010, 08:20 AM
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I know there are some college "contests" out there that do design and build of duration and lifting capacity using a R/C platform. I for one would be interested in seeing and following along with these teams from design to actual flight. Might be a fun read.
Merry Christmas
Mike
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Old Dec 25, 2010, 09:51 AM
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SAE is good. Our club president in PA is the faculty advisor and usually test pilot.

Locally (IL) they have Design-Build-Fly (DBF) which looks to be very practical, almost like having a bunch of college students design the next thing needed for a REAL product.

Andy
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Old Dec 25, 2010, 09:55 AM
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Very cool. Is there a website that we might check out? Getting snow? Just talked to the kids in Lake Villa Ill. there having a white Christmas.
Mike
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Old Dec 25, 2010, 10:17 AM
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http://www.aiaadbf.org/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Design/Build/Fly
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Old Dec 25, 2010, 10:50 AM
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United States, WA, Hoodsport
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mode One View Post
I would tend to believe the RCM plans service to be a different entity then the magazine
The way I heard it from the Rumor Mill...

The woman that processed the plans orders at RCM Magazine was either given or bought the right to publish and sell the RCM plan lot (and some other RCM publications & items) when the magazine went out of business. She did have her operations in So. California, but moved it up to Oregon. I still buy plans from her now and then and they come very well copied and within a reasonable amount of time.

EJWash
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Old Dec 25, 2010, 09:38 PM
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United States, IL, St Charles
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Quote:
I've been an registered Aviation Merit badge counselor for my local BSA council for fifteen years
There is also a 'Model building' merit badge that our scouts can earn. The low mb completion rate has a lot to do with parents driving the scouts towards advancement and merit badge 'collection'. I have been involved in scouting for roughly 30 years, have been a Scoutmaster since 2004. I see lots of boys that have incomplete badges that need only 1 or two req to finish. Many times the parents sign up and drag the boys to these workshops. I love to work with youth who are are committed and eager to learn. And I have no problem seeing scouts walk away with a partially completed mb when they are really not into it.

Back on topic. I am recently getting back into the hobby after ~22 years away. I built and flew rc kits as a teenager. Started off in a free flight club offered by the local youth activities center (army base). I picked up an RCM magazine and was hooked. ARFs were only starting to pop up when I was a kid. And I could not afford them anyway. I earned money bagging groceries to pay for flying supplies. By the time I was 17, I was teaching a few Army officers how to build, set up and fly at nearby field.

Last week I visited two local shops looking for a trainer / kit that I could give my 12yr old son for Christmas. The first shop gave me a very odd attitude and tried to steer me into a .40 trainer combo package. He really pushed hard on the advantages of this path. I told him that my son loved to build and create and I was prepared (and qualified) to help him through it. The guy only reluctantly agreed that it could be good for a kid to learn to build. The next shop was much better. That is where I ultimately spent my $ even though it is a longer drive for me.

There were not a lot of options for trainer kits, however. I had done some research online, and had a pretty good idea what I was looking for. I would suggest, that people that are new to the RC hobby, have a much harder time than we did buying there first kit. Nobody wants to show up at a club looking like an idiot or noob. I suppose is would be a lot more comfortable for most to show up with an ARF that looks great out of the box. Not me! I cant wait to recover my old Sr Falcon after 20+ years and get it onto the flight line!!

My suggestion to increase building: Offer workshops for people new to RC planes. (not just kids) Make a safe environment where people can ask stupid questions (yes there are stupid questions!) and not be made to feel stupid. I bet there are a lot of people that would like to build and just lack confidence. When a hobby shop tells them that an ARF combo is THE smart way to go, who would argue?

Anyway, JMHO

I still can't understand why this guy was so pro ARF. Maybe new modelers are just too high maintenance, and they make more profit / hr selling the ARF/cobos. ??? Who knows?
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Old Dec 26, 2010, 06:32 AM
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Per caveeagle: "I still can't understand why this guy was so pro ARF. Maybe new modelers are just too high maintenance, and they make more profit / hr selling the ARF/cobos. ??? Who knows?"

ARFs are the main stream today! Many people in the hobby (and good Flyers!) would no more consider building, from kit; or, scratch, then would consider playing golf with a baseball bat! In fact, many flyers today consider building an ARF to much work and go to R/C auctions to pick-up used stuff (preferably with the radios and engines already installed, thank you)! The claim is: they just don't have time to build.
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Old Dec 26, 2010, 10:54 AM
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Different strokes for different folks........... I supose.

It used to be that anyone into hot rods or classic cars learned to work on their own cars. I know a couple guys at work that have completely worked over mustangs and can't (or don't) even change their own oil. It does irritate me when they try to give me car advice and they have no idea what work I have put into my '67 stang/vert or my 04 svt cobra. I have no problem with them paying a shop to bolt on the latest go-fast add-on, just don't give me attitude as if you built something special.

I am not fully integrated back into the RC culture to know how this has impacted the club scene. So far, I have seen both ends of the spectrum.
a) Build?! ... Really?.... Why?
and:
b) You want a kit!, Wow, that is awsome, I wish we saw more people like that.

For me, the flying was always just part of it. I like to know how things work. It is like that in most things I do. ie: Cars, scuba diving (mostely in caves), as well as at work. I think this has served me well in my career. I do not have a college degree, and have many in my organization that do.

No animocity towards the ARF crowd. But I still have more respect for Builder/Flyers. JMHO
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Old Dec 26, 2010, 01:32 PM
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That's what makes this hobby interesting besides all the different personalities and their preferences. Me I don't care, build don't build. Build and don't fly whatever trips you switch. When a builder shows up at the field with something special it always turns heads. Some will be swayed to try and build most will not. Big deal this is supposed to be fun.
Mike
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Old Dec 26, 2010, 01:38 PM
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Some of us look at the building part as enjoyable, some don't, those who don't obviously don't know what their missing.
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Old Dec 26, 2010, 01:59 PM
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In reality all builders find it enjoyable or wouldn't be building. Some that don't may be swayed to give it a try by a unique built up model that shows up at the field. That's about the only that I can see that we could convince people to give it a try. I find older modelers that are returning to the sport after a long absence are more inclined to do a build than the younger crowd.
Mike
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Old Dec 26, 2010, 05:16 PM
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Talk about a builder. I case any of you missed these. This guys amazing.
Mike

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=488009

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=933242
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