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Old Sep 10, 2010, 04:18 PM
I'm a pilot... 100 yrs to late
Thermalin's Avatar
USA, FL, Palm Harbor
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I think he's saying (in a nicer way) you get out of something what you put into it. In anything you do... there will always be those who like to help and share knowledge and there will be those who don't. Find the ones who do and you'll be good.

At my daughters school each spring I shoot off estes rockes.. all types and sizes for 3 of her classes when they finish up the space, water rocket, etc lessons. I find that something like this is easy to understand.. easy to build and a big wow factor. I even have props and demos of how igniters work, the motors work, etc.. really gets thier interest at 11-12 yrs old both boys and girls. Some have even daddled their feet and started building / flying... Now i use the word build loosely b/c i reccomend they start out with the all in one kits you can get from walmart, etc. Two rockets.. motors.. launch system and everything for 20 bucks. Can't beat that. And there is even some building involved. At a younger age with all the computer games and other immediate gratifcation with little energy spent activities available, this is a good way to get kids working with thier hands again. Generally 100% success. an evening to assemble and again a big wow factor. I plan on brining out an RC assist rocket glider next spring as one of the models - there's a method to my madness

I think when we were young.. 30-35 yrs ago (for me anyway) there wasn't so much to choose from and as such RC planes in itself was a wow factor enough even with the higher barriers to entry... you were participating in something very cool.

Baby steps man... baby steps... get them interested.. then set the hook!

MIke
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Old Sep 14, 2010, 07:11 AM
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I'm going to nicely ask, that posters to this thread get back to it's original question of: "How do we bring model building back"? I know that some of you dislike me as much as I dislike you! Can we get beyond this? If you can't, why do you even come here to post? Making sweeping statements about old people being this way; or, that, does nothing but cause rancor and retribution! Simply put if there weren't older people, younger people wouldn't exist either and younger people are simply older people in training! Believe me when I tell you, you will be an older person far quicker than you can possibly believe!

I have stated earlier, for my purposes, this thread has served it's purpose! I believe model airplane building is alive and well. Yet, it is given little press time by the R/C written press media for what ever reason. I think one of the best ways to promote building model airplanes is to post a build thread here on RCGroups or at any of the R/CForums that exist.

What do you say, do you want to put your differences aside and move on? Or, do you want to continue to squabble, ceaslessly and senslessly?
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Old Sep 14, 2010, 02:32 PM
AndyKunz's Avatar
Illinois
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mode One View Post
I believe model airplane building is alive and well. Yet, it is given little press time by the R/C written press media for what ever reason.
One possible reason: money!

When a product from a company is reviewed by the magazine, there is money involved. It flows from the vendor to the magazine in the form of advertisements for that and other products. They spend some of that money paying someone to write the review article.

When a magazine publishes a model airplane design, money is again involved. This time it flows from the magazine to the designer. If people were publishing unique designs via magazines, sufficiently interesting that you could gain and maintain a subscriber base (and related plan sales), then this would again provide income to the magazine, thus making design publishing a market-worthy item.

So, if we stop giving everything away for free, and instead submit it to magazine editors, they would have plenty quality designs from which to select for publication.

All the magazine editors I've spoken with have always said, "I can't print what you don't submit." If you want to see magazines print designs, you need to submit them. I get the impression that while not a lot of guys actually build, they all love to see the designs in the magazine.

Andy
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Old Sep 14, 2010, 02:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyKunz View Post
One possible reason: money!

When a product from a company is reviewed by the magazine, there is money involved. It flows from the vendor to the magazine in the form of advertisements for that and other products. They spend some of that money paying someone to write the review article.

When a magazine publishes a model airplane design, money is again involved. This time it flows from the magazine to the designer. If people were publishing unique designs via magazines, sufficiently interesting that you could gain and maintain a subscriber base (and related plan sales), then this would again provide income to the magazine, thus making design publishing a market-worthy item.

So, if we stop giving everything away for free, and instead submit it to magazine editors, they would have plenty quality designs from which to select for publication.

All the magazine editors I've spoken with have always said, "I can't print what you don't submit." If you want to see magazines print designs, you need to submit them. I get the impression that while not a lot of guys actually build, they all love to see the designs in the magazine.

Andy
Excellent analysis, Andy. Too many times the things we'd love to either see in print or have available to us just don't have enough of a user base to make a profit for the ones supplying it to us. I think you've hit the nail on the head, squarely.

Chuck
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Old Sep 14, 2010, 05:23 PM
I'm a pilot... 100 yrs to late
Thermalin's Avatar
USA, FL, Palm Harbor
Joined Jan 2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mode One View Post
....... I think one of the best ways to promote building model airplanes is to post a build thread here on RCGroups or at any of the R/CForums that exist.

What do you say.....
ModeOne.. I have done build threads before... and I'm in the middle of a GP 40 size cub. I've been taking pics for this same friend I have discussed in this thread to show him how it's going. I will create a thread for this build tonight and put up the pics I have so far. I should have done this already but sometimes build threads lead a person to beleive they have to post something every couple days, and it can made to be felt almost like pressure. Of course, the builder (me) puts this pressure on themselves as those who follow know 'build time" can be limited, etc.

So look for my thread in the next day or so under The Builders Workshop. I currently have the fuse, and tail feathers done... or done to the point I need before other decisions need to be made. We builders never really follow the directions exactly right...what fun is that...

Mike
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Old Sep 14, 2010, 08:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyKunz View Post
One possible reason: money!

When a product from a company is reviewed by the magazine, there is money involved. It flows from the vendor to the magazine in the form of advertisements for that and other products. They spend some of that money paying someone to write the review article.

When a magazine publishes a model airplane design, money is again involved. This time it flows from the magazine to the designer. If people were publishing unique designs via magazines, sufficiently interesting that you could gain and maintain a subscriber base (and related plan sales), then this would again provide income to the magazine, thus making design publishing a market-worthy item.

So, if we stop giving everything away for free, and instead submit it to magazine editors, they would have plenty quality designs from which to select for publication.

All the magazine editors I've spoken with have always said, "I can't print what you don't submit." If you want to see magazines print designs, you need to submit them. I get the impression that while not a lot of guys actually build, they all love to see the designs in the magazine.

Andy
Understood and mostly agree with. However, as someone who is very interested in building, I find little of interest in the printed media. I have negligible interest in ARF reviews, receive catalogs for free and information that I don't get mailed to me, I can easily find on the internet. So, in my opinion, if the printed media can't supply me with what I want, they will be making even less money! If Flying Scale Models out of the U.K.(which pays attention to the builder) can have an international following, why can't it be done elsewhere. No, I don't subscribe, as I can't afford a subscription. Yes, I am a member of the AMA and I do get Model Aviation. No, I don't get Flying Models; but, I do occasionally buy off the news stand.

So, what's happening is those of us interested in building do it and talk about it right here on these R/C Forums and there is plenty of it going on here. It's possible paper hobby magazines will cease to exist in the not to distant future. I think if they do, it will have very little effect on the actual building of model airplanes.
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Old Sep 14, 2010, 08:46 PM
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By the way I have looked at Vanish's Blog and have to say what he is building is interesting.

Thermalin, I look forward to reading your build thread!
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Old Sep 15, 2010, 08:51 AM
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Illinois
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I just picked up a copy of FSM last weekend at the LHS. First time I ever saw it. It was a pretty good balance of UK and US content, of ARF and building. The price is pretty steep, though!

I find printed media much more convenient than online. I can read in bed, on the throne, in a car, on a plane. I sit in front of a PC all day for work. The last thing I need is to have to do it for entertainment as well.

Andy
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Old Sep 15, 2010, 05:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyKunz View Post
I just picked up a copy of FSM last weekend at the LHS. First time I ever saw it. It was a pretty good balance of UK and US content, of ARF and building. The price is pretty steep, though!

I find printed media much more convenient than online. I can read in bed, on the throne, in a car, on a plane. I sit in front of a PC all day for work. The last thing I need is to have to do it for entertainment as well.

Andy
I am in complete agreement with you! I wish the R/C press would have deeper content then it has for the last 10 or so years. I have a job which parks me in front of a computer much of the day. So, like you, I like to read as I watch TV, am on the throne and in bed, before I go to sleep. Other then Model Aviation, I feel there isn't much out there.
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Old Sep 19, 2010, 08:12 AM
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I have to agree with the "micro-wave mentality" that people tend to move toward when the ARF's are priced so low.
One sure way to keep model building alive is to help a youngster to learn to build, share your "why this works better than that", or " a bigger hammer is not always better".

My son and I started flying by buying used planes and trying to fix them when we crashed,( No son,the wind sock is not a target. Get it up in the air!)

It was a joy to be able to teach him the difference between a video game and real life. When he did his solo flight on his twelth birthday,he said his legs were shaking so bad he could hardly stand.
Now its time to try teaching him to build a kit, and the ease of little risk, time, cost, knowledge, money, tools and space that comes with just buying an ARF is hard to justify when I'm learning myself.

If you really would like to keep building alive, share your time and talents.
There are alot of kids out there that would love to have a "GrandPa" that taught him how to build things.

Competing with video games is tough! We can use all the help we can get!
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Old Sep 19, 2010, 11:55 AM
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a few pics of my plane. thanks to everyone who suggested the Stevens Squirt 400. Great first build. Looking forward to my next one, going to fly the beegeezus out of this bird first though. :-) Maiden flight this afternoon after work....



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Old Sep 20, 2010, 02:28 PM
I'm a pilot... 100 yrs to late
Thermalin's Avatar
USA, FL, Palm Harbor
Joined Jan 2005
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New Diamond...

I'm building a Great Planes Cub 40 in the builders workshop. Take a look. I try to be wordy in my posts on purpose to assist those newer builders with what I have picked up over the yearsy. I hope your son takes to this great hobby...I started at about yours sons age with stick and tissue models "with dad" and am now 48! Building isn't hard... just time consuming. Plan on 3 to 4 months. But nothing like that sense of accomplishment and having a one of a kind at the field. If he thought his knees were shaking before... wait till he's got 4 months of blood sweat and yes tears on the runway . I happen to think it's one" of the best feelings in the world when all the effort takes flight.
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Old Sep 21, 2010, 12:47 AM
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Hello, I also share the concern of how model building is at least less visible anymore, if not fading away. I have been building model car and aircraft since I was 8, although my early ones never flew, actually, very few of them flew, In fact, I can only recall one that flew..
Anyway, I have a keen interest in building anything and everything, I see it as an artwork, something that you can use to reflect yourself with. My parents are artists, which may partially explain how I enjoy building, I feel it's not entirely a fading of model aircraft building but a nation wide loss of art appreciation, Everyone wants it the easy and cheap way. I feel that as a nation we have become a spectator society, watching others do the interesting and delicate things, such as viewing art as something that belongs in a museum, not something that belongs in everyday life. I personally cannot stand using anything I have not built or at least modified myself, I built my own computers, my own aircraft, and this summer I am planning on building my own car from scratch (Wish me luck!), I would never be able to drive any stupid looking box from the Big 3, I want something that expresses myself, not some other corporately paid guy who just wants his next paycheck so he can go and buy a beer and watch football.
Sorry for the ranting and raving, I just see it as a major issue in our country that no-one cares about the art and the expression, at least writings are still alive, even if they are being transfered to E-Books instead of the old style paper.
Here is a concept drawing of my car, sort of based off of a hammerhead shark in the front, and it certainly is not the final design.
http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/3481/cardrawing.jpg
Planning on it being 100% electric, I feel guilty about burning gasoline and expanding my carbon footprint any more than I have to.
Happy flying!
-Don
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Old Sep 21, 2010, 06:27 AM
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jbrinkley0826, Very nice job!
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Old Sep 23, 2010, 04:03 PM
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