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Old Aug 30, 2009, 11:49 PM
yyz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoffinpdx
http://web.ku.edu/~edit/whom.html

I can't agree that balsa builders are born, not made. While some have more talent than others, we all have the ability to learn. Which medium we prefer is unimportant; designing and building are at issue here. Creativity is at issue here. Developing someone's creative interest, whether for building in foam blocks, foam sheets, fiberglass, carbon fiber, balsa, cardboard, or combined methods is what's important.

Former model builder Bert Rutan started building in balsa, then built with balsa-covered foam. He then learned from the sailplane and surfboard guys about fiberglass over foam, and applied that knowledge to two of the most innovative homebuilt airplanes of all time, the VariEze and LongEze. Had he stayed with balsa only, where would he be today?

Geoff
Well stated, Geoff. I wholeheartedly agree that builders can be "made". I would add Paul McCready to the list that includes Burt Rutan and others that have turned the aviation world on it's ear with their creativity and tenacity.

Mike
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Old Aug 31, 2009, 04:09 AM
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But Burt Rutan and Paul MacCready are only two people. The fact that two people, who most people in the world will hardly have heard of, went on to fairly great things after building models surely isn't a great help in ModeOne's quest to get more people building models.

Saying to the kid who just wants to know how fast it goes and where he can buy it that you built it yourself and if he did likewise he might be the next Paul MacCready probably isn't going to help a lot .

Among many other problems designers, inventors and engineers simply aren't kid's heroes any more. You have to be a billionaire "sport player" or "musician" to be a role model these days.

Steve
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Old Aug 31, 2009, 04:13 AM
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We only have to do two things.

(i) depreciate western currencies to place imported ARTF's out of reach.

(ii) throw everybody out of work so that everyone has more time than money.

Our Glorious Leaders have this all in hand, I can assure you.
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Old Aug 31, 2009, 06:29 AM
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59 years old, laid off since January 27th, applications and resumes to almost 100 different companies, 3 inteviews in that time! Sorta feels like I live in a third world country, to me! Oh, by the way, do you need an ARF assembled, will do it for cheap!
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Old Aug 31, 2009, 06:56 AM
Zor
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mode One
>
>
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So, the question is, what can be done to bring model building back?
From post #1 _ _ _ _

There is no need to bring model building back.
Model building is all over the industry and the stores are full of models.

What I would whole heartedly agree with Mode One is . . .
What can be done to bring the hobby back?

Perhaps that is what he was trying to say ? ? ?

vintage1 offered a solution.

Zor
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Old Aug 31, 2009, 08:54 AM
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Vint's is about the only viable solution at this point. I too started when you had to build your own, from scratch or a kit it didn't matter, if you wanted to learn to fly you needed to build a plane. I probably did more building than flying and would build a plane and turn around and sell it at the field a week later. These days however things are different. I recently built a typical fun-fly type airplane. It finished it last winter and it basically sat in my shop for about six months. I decided I would put it up for sale. I was pretty shocked when I was done adding up all the money I had invested in it with wood, covering and hardware. Even though the covering job makes the model unique, I can't even get a return on what I put into it because it would be cheaper for someone to buy an arf to fly. I guess I'll fly it myself.

Speaking of rolling your own I think the cost of balsa has gone sky high. Sometimes it's just more economical to buy one of the china arfs after you add up the cost for all the materials like wood, covering and hardware. The time that still would need to be invested would definitely make it a labor of love.
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Old Aug 31, 2009, 10:31 AM
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Interesting discussion.

I'm of the opinion that the capacity to build is ingrained during childhood and is very related to personality. By capacity I don't mean physical skill set like cutting wood - anyone can do it and it can be taught, but rather the desire to do it.

I love to build. But I have always loved to build, whether it was by doing crafts as a kid, or Lego, or tinkering with my car. The desire to create and be a part of making something work has always been there. I'm in my 20's and its only getting better as my skills improve.

IMO there's no such thing as attracting people to experience building. We can only hope that those who have already aquired the desire to work and create has the opportunity to apply it to RC.
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Old Aug 31, 2009, 10:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iso Octane
Interesting discussion.

I'm of the opinion that the capacity to build is ingrained during childhood and is very related to personality. By capacity I don't mean physical skill set like cutting wood - anyone can do it and it can be taught, but rather the desire to do it.

I love to build. But I have always loved to build, whether it was by doing crafts as a kid, or Lego, or tinkering with my car. The desire to create and be a part of making something work has always been there. I'm in my 20's and its only getting better as my skills improve.

IMO there's no such thing as attracting people to experience building. We can only hope that those who have already aquired the desire to work and create has the opportunity to apply it to RC.
Very well said!
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Old Aug 31, 2009, 10:54 AM
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Egad, what a thread!

Some people like ARF's and will always like them.

Some people like to build and will always like to build.

And some are a little of both.

And, yes, being a modeler can be a benefit to some jobs, just as being an engineer can be a benefit. Nope, won't help you become a human resources manager, but, could get you in the door of a prototyping shop. Or, hired on as a UAV crew for a local agency. Or for aerial photography work. Or as a modeler for a movie producer. Probably quite a few others I have missed.

Personally, my modeling interest led to my engineering degree, so, am happy with the choice.

charlie
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Old Aug 31, 2009, 12:59 PM
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I was bad at building models when I started. I just wanted them to fly, so I kept at it. Like Charlie, building planes and eventually radio gear took me into electronics, and DIY and gradually I got better at it all.

But it was only the desire to see them fly that kept me at it long enough to get good. If ARTF;s and the money had been available I probably never would have persevered..

BUtr coming back into the hobby years later, building became a way of getting what I wanted, not what some manufacturer was promoting as flavour of the month.
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Old Aug 31, 2009, 08:36 PM
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People have always said I can do almost anything fairly well. I think as a kid in a working class family building model airplanes started whatever infliction I have.

Along the way I became a master for sake of a better word in at least a couple of fields. That enabled an above average income over the years. Yet more importantly a sense of freedom.

At this late date I still seem to have far more to do than time. If I had not started with the mystery of flight stimulation who knows what may have transpired instead. A really true unknown.

In my particular case I really feel overall it changed my life. I now attempt to get youngsters with problems into activities that build confidence and self esteem. Tragically most have almost no developed self confidence to tackle anything. Attention span or focus seems to have declined somewhat from one generation to the next as well. The state of society is far more complex than it was perhaps.

There for the forseeable future should remain a hard core group of builders. I know one thing that keeps me going at it sporatically is the technology advancements. Many simple things I take for granted today were unknowns. As far as potential practicallity even was concerned only a smattering of years ago.

I guess my point is that there are far greater gains from building models over arfs that are perhaps unknown intangiables. I personally enjoy the construction activity as well. It is very restful as it is hard for the mind to entertain two activities at the same time. Especially something involving building where you must pay attention to the task at hand in my opinion.
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Old Sep 01, 2009, 05:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slipstick
But it will anyway be an uphill battle. Hardly anyone builds their own cars, televisions, kid's toys, computers, golf clubs etc these days and most people can't see any reason why flying models should be any different. Flying models is the skill they're interested in practising. You'll only meet the odd few who become interested in having models to fly which are different from (better than ?) the ordinary common models that everyone else is flying. These people must be nurtured .

Steve
Good point, how many of you are typing on a computer that you BUILT? As in, even ordered component parts and assembled?

Nope, I bet the VAST majority of you bought a box, plugged it in and got going. Why bother building? What does it gain you? It does what I need it to do and it is quicker and easier?

The same can be said about building models. Why, when you can buy a nice looking, nice flying, STRAIGHT, ARF/RTF? Just like your computer.

Or how many of you actually work on your cars? Change your own oil? Change brake pads? Simple stuff. Heck, how many of you have actually checked the oil or tire pressures within the last month? Last 6 months? Last year?

BTW since 1987 I have bought 2 computers that were plug and play (excluding laptops), out of 20+ computers. This is a new Intel i7 920/Gigabyte GA-EX58-UD3R/6GB DDR3/Radeon 4850/2 x WD VelociRaptor RAID 1 primary and 4 x Hitachi 1TB RAID 10 data drives.

And yes, I work on my cars, from fluid changes to brakes to performance modifications. Starting with building a hot rod for my first car by dropping a 56 Buick 364 into a 55 Chevy, Borg Warner T10 close ratio, 4.10 posi, etc.

And I fly ARFs and I also build.
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Old Sep 01, 2009, 07:25 AM
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The process of building is theraputic for me! It calms me down, put's order in my world and helps me remember what is important! I get these benefits from only one other activity in my life and that is sailing.

My guess is many R/Cers get similar benefits from flying (I hope)! For me flying is O.K., but it isn't theraputic.

I was a tool and die maker. I built tooling for the business I owned. I learned the process of designing and building tooling over a 20 year period (you never stop learning). Doing this for my living with time constraints and money involved was the opposite of theraputic! However, building models has been so ingrained in me. I find it good for my sole and counter acts the pressure of day to day life!

It has nothing to do with the cost of ARFs over building from kits or scratch! It has to do with individuality, creativity, self expression, pride in workmanship and ones abilities.
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Last edited by Mode One; Sep 01, 2009 at 08:38 AM. Reason: Additional thoughts
Old Sep 01, 2009, 08:28 AM
Zor
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Enjoy whatever brings you a good time

Hi everyone,

Will anyone inform me of which rule is being broken in the following posting?

I read lots of opinions about the Radio Controlled hobby.

Wether one builds or assemble or just buy ready to fly is a personal choice that does not deserve any criticism, arguments or evaluation of the person.

We are all free to do things our own way and enjoy activities the way we like.

It is for each of us our personality and discussing or expressing opinions on personalities is not my understanding of the purpose of this forum.

Emitting (writing in this forum) an opinion is not the best way of influencing anything if it is not backed up by proof of performance.

I have been a builder or if you prefer an assembler of a Super Skybolt kit that I just finished. I prefer spend leisure time putting together a model airplane than spend time watching the "boob tube" .

I do not mind taking apart an item to understand better how it functions such as the Hobbico Deluxe Power Panel II which would not heat up the glow plug when simultaneously activating the electric starter to the prop.

I just finished putting back together all that I had taken apart on my Ford Thunderbird that had blown a head gasket. A 1995 car that runs like a new car and all the bells and whistlles are working just fine.

These are not any justification to write any nasty comments on anyone else's personality or character. One might think that there is different level of dexterity in the hobby but it should not be a matter of statement or discussions in this forum or in any forum.

In a forum with world wide access it is not surprising that some may feel sometime irritated by the postings of someone. That is a relative judgment as a result of what is posted versus the feelings of the reader. It is not an insult either way.

Some guidelines should be observed (thus the established rules) for the smooth functoning of any forums as well as the observance of decent social standards (again a relative item that may vary considerably world wide).

Example is the concept of privacy which is in general a world wide acceptance and understanding but we have recently seen some exception.

So I am myself and you are yourself.

If we can recognize our differences as normal and keep out of writing on subjects that are not related to model aircraft and the forum, we then all can get along just fine.

Enjoy your flying, building or assembling and participate in the forum as a tool of commuication between hobbyists and as a link to advertising by commercial enterprises.

Stay out of comments and remarks on people's personalities and characters.
These postings only reflect on your own in the long run as we are beginning to notice.

Zor
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Last edited by Zor; Sep 01, 2009 at 09:06 PM. Reason: To find which rule is claimed broken.
Old Sep 01, 2009, 09:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zor

Example is the concept of privacy which is in general a world wide acceptance and understanding but we have recently seen some exception.
Hi Zor,

With all due respect, why are you dragging into this thread an event that happened in another thread???

So far, I have made it a point to try and defend you against your detractors. But enough is enough.

You are hereby on my ignore list.

Chuck
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