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Old Jun 11, 2012, 04:23 PM
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kingconsulting's Avatar
United States, CA, Long Beach
Joined Sep 2011
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Then why are you posting here?

Remember it's not personal.

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Originally Posted by leccyflyer View Post
This isn't the forum for trying to get another forum, BTW. That would be the New Forum Requests forum.
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Old Jun 11, 2012, 05:57 PM
Crikey never leave beer behind
steve wenban's Avatar
Mt Annan Sydney Australia
Joined Dec 2003
23,381 Posts
I voted no (and I have a few more than zero post ) not because I have anything against it but I just could not see the value of isolating the abundance of build experience in the targeted forums already ,as I said my build logs are aimed at and I've been told that they are helpful in the area of my main interest which in PSS and slope . I'm happy in being a minority as slope flying is and probably always will be a minority. People look at my Blog and comment and if they have a question or are building something similar and come across a problem then I'm happy to help in a 1 on 1 basis . The Main problem is that there is so many ways to skin a cat which often is more confusing than helpful. Builders talking to builders is great for making friends of like minded people but how does it help the newbie with a build question when he receive 15 different methods to over come it . Just my thoughts though.
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Old Jun 11, 2012, 06:17 PM
All under control, Grommit!
leccyflyer's Avatar
United Kingdom, Aberdeen
Joined Sep 2000
12,605 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by kingconsulting View Post
Then why are you posting here?

Remember it's not personal.
Because the topic was brought across to this thread and I want to present the other side of the argument and the downside of the proposal.
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Old Jun 11, 2012, 07:32 PM
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United States, CA, Long Beach
Joined Sep 2011
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No it was not. A link was given to the original thread. You chose to be my shadow and bring the discussion here.

I suggest we remain on topic here. Remember we have rules to follow.

Quote:
Originally Posted by leccyflyer View Post
Because the topic was brought across to this thread and I want to present the other side of the argument and the downside of the proposal.
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Old Jun 11, 2012, 08:04 PM
Crikey never leave beer behind
steve wenban's Avatar
Mt Annan Sydney Australia
Joined Dec 2003
23,381 Posts
And now back to topic , bringing the art of building to people that do not have time to build is a difficult and some time impossible task , however the questions that get asked at the flying field regarding a model that more often goes, "how much" and "where did you buy it" come from those that have only been only exposed to the hobby shop glossy advertising side of things, as in they enter the hobby by being sold a usually expensive and 90% of the time unsuitable model to learn with. This often leads to 1 flight and no return as they make and RTF into a kit again with no knowledge gained in how to fix what they broke and not really knowing who or what to ask about it. That's where the specific forums come into being . Ask in the right forum regarding your interest and the answers will come . Starting into the hobby with a scratch build whilst certainly was the only way for me and many others it is no longer the case. But breaking them has never changed ,and that's where we the builders can make the most use of our gained knowledge and skills . Knowledge kept secret is useless information. Once again just my thoughts.
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Old Jun 11, 2012, 11:51 PM
I wanna fly like this
HighLife's Avatar
United States, CA, Sacramento
Joined Jan 2011
171 Posts
Thanks Steve for getting this train wreck back on the track. I have been a builder for many years and find the most satisfaction in the first minute of flight after a multi-month build. I have also purchased ARF and RTF that have required a modest amount of knowledge that can only be gained during the building experience. Even the best ARF/RTF is gonna require repair at some point. And I have picked up some really good deals on salvageable "wrecks". Just my take on it.
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Old Jun 12, 2012, 08:05 AM
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United States, CA, Long Beach
Joined Sep 2011
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Building my balsa plane has given me all kinds of knowledge on repairing my ARF's. It has given me the confidence and the ways to look at something and realize different ways that it can be repaired. It is a great feeling of accomplishment.

Now if we can just get that feeling to the younger generation...

Robert
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Old Jun 12, 2012, 08:37 AM
AndyKunz's Avatar
Illinois
Joined Sep 2001
24,060 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by kingconsulting View Post
Now if we can just get that feeling to the younger generation...
Find one nearby and mentor him/her.

There are lots of single moms who would appreciate having a father-figure in their kids' lives, even if it's only a neighbor who shows the kid one or two little things. My building buddy was in his 90's and had almost daily visits from the 5-year-old across the street as "they" built a rubber plane "together." (He also had almost daily visits from a 40-something guy - me).

My boys know how to build. You'd be surprised how much they pick up by watching.

My oldest granddaughter has a "remote control plane" - it's battery powered and runs on a track like a Hot Wheels car, but she holds the transmitter and drives it.

Andy
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Old Jun 13, 2012, 11:09 AM
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Joined Jan 2011
10 Posts
Most people aren't interested in why planes fly

If builders are on their way out, then so am I. But, I don't believe it. I think there are some reasons why many model flyers don't build; they are not curious about why a plane flys the way it does and they use most of their spare time to get the quick gratification that comes from flying. Also, they don't want to take the time to learn the technology or the craftsmanship it takes to be a good builder.

"I don't have the time" is just a cop-out. If they were interested, they would make the time. So what's the answer? We need to find ways to get youngsters interested in learning about airplanes and flight. The Civil Air Patrol was great at this when I was a kid. Clubs might think about having How-To sessions at their meetings and also classes for members. There are still plenty of us around who would be glad to share our skills and knowledge.

The internet is a great resource for this type of info. Want to know how to get better performance from your plane and your flying skills? Go to www.rcaeronauts.com .
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Old Jun 13, 2012, 11:15 AM
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United States, IL, Joliet
Joined Jun 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RCAERO View Post
If builders are on their way out, then so am I. But, I don't believe it. I think there are some reasons why many model flyers don't build; they are not curious about why a plane flys the way it does and they use most of their spare time to get the quick gratification that comes from flying. Also, they don't want to take the time to learn the technology or the craftsmanship it takes to be a good builder.

"I don't have the time" is just a cop-out. If they were interested, they would make the time. So what's the answer? We need to find ways to get youngsters interested in learning about airplanes and flight. The Civil Air Patrol was great at this when I was a kid. Clubs might think about having How-To sessions at their meetings and also classes for members. There are still plenty of us around who would be glad to share our skills and knowledge.

The internet is a great resource for this type of info. Want to know how to get better performance from your plane and your flying skills? Go to www.rcaeronauts.com .
There are plenty of cg calculators and they work great the only difference form thos and yours is the the others are FREE .Lmao SPAMMERS ! You new guys just do a search for free ones http://www.scaleaero.com/CG_Calculator.htm heres a FREE one for canards also http://adamone.rchomepage.com/cg2_canard.htm
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Old Jun 13, 2012, 02:35 PM
I'm a pilot... 100 yrs to late
Thermalin's Avatar
USA, FL, Palm Harbor
Joined Jan 2005
3,453 Posts
This is identical to those who program games and those who play them. Of course there will be crossover. but not much. That cross over will be mainly in the tinkering / foam or super simple balsa e-builds. To go and learn Java, C++ or .Net is a far cry from BASIC.
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Old Jun 13, 2012, 03:35 PM
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Taget's Avatar
United States, MI, Marquette
Joined Dec 2010
208 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by kingconsulting View Post
Building my balsa plane has given me all kinds of knowledge on repairing my ARF's. It has given me the confidence and the ways to look at something and realize different ways that it can be repaired. It is a great feeling of accomplishment.

Now if we can just get that feeling to the younger generation...

Robert
I totally agree with you, Building my first kit really taught me a great deal on construction and that their are many ways to approach a problem.

Thermalin - Java wasn't that bad
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Old Jun 23, 2012, 09:08 AM
AndyKunz's Avatar
Illinois
Joined Sep 2001
24,060 Posts
Here's a link to a thread for a book from when balsa was still relatively new:

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1671447

Some things never change!

Andy
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Old Jun 24, 2012, 07:16 PM
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Props's Avatar
United States, AZ, Prescott
Joined May 2011
59 Posts
How to preserve building

When I was a boy my father and foster father were both aerospace engineers. they tried to teach me about how to design and manufacture quality.

One of the builders on this forum commented about (and I paraphrase) the ARF people

" they don't want to take the time to learn the technology or the craftsmanship it takes to be a good builder.

"I don't have the time" is just a cop-out. If they were interested, they would make the time."

He is right on. Learning to build balsa structures that are light, strong and function together in flight has taught me how to understand and deal with complex real world design issues of significant gravity. So gratifying to have the skills I learned to design and fabricate RC solutions to spill over into solving all kinds of other engineering challenges, that I know now this would have been reason enough.

But the RC modeler needs an "RC" reason to design and build because it requires a dedication and devotion to skills that take time to acquire. So why would he?

Would it be fair to say that you can explore of much wider variety of aircraft if you have more building skills? I think so, yes.

Is it true (AND THIS WAS THE BIG MOTIVATOR FOR ME) that you CAN BUILD A BETTER AIRPLANE THAN YOU CAN ARF? Is that true? Im seriously asking you guys this question: Can you BUILD a better airplane than you can buy prebuilt?
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Old Jun 24, 2012, 07:39 PM
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Props's Avatar
United States, AZ, Prescott
Joined May 2011
59 Posts
(the ARF) often leads to 1 flight and no return as they make and RTF into a kit again with no knowledge gained in how to fix what they broke and not really knowing who or what to ask about it.

This is so true. I love RC and got started when the only way to get a plane was to build it. When this idea lost popularity, we all lost a set of wonders that are truly important.

I started back into RC with RTF, then ARF, then Kits and now Im gearing up for a scratch build.

One of our model magazines showed a club where dozens of people in the club all got the same set of plans and they helped each other build from that starting point. Looks like it was really good for the local Hobby Shop (anyone take note of that) But it was great for the club as a whole and for the members who connected in ways they never had before sharing ideas and modifications.

Then the club had a day to show and fly all the different variations; biplane versions, electric versions, glow, twins, first timers....

If an experienced builder in my club hadn't taken me on as a mentoree, I'd still be ARFing electric foams. ARFing electric foams may prove to be a good way to get people interested, and then people being what we are, a small percentage will want to build something better than they can buy prebuilt.

I got interested when I SAW, my mentors aircraft perform in challenging weather conditions.... and be more reliable, powerful, stable, acrobatic, easier to see, unique, than any of the ARF's I thought "I wonder how much of what he is doing could I copy/employ to improve my RC experience.

He was generous with sharing his extensive knowledge and I started having some real success. I've had so much fun that I don't even touch my ARF's anymore and I build all the time. Building proved to be a reward in itself... and after some advice on some shop tools I started having as much fun building what I wanted, as I did flying what was available.

Demonstrating the fun, of building and flying what you built might be a great way to preserve this fantastic aspect of our hobby..... a part of RC that appears to be dying off in front of our eyes.

It's such a great thing, that it deserves some effort to keep alive. I guess Im saying show others what can be achieved by building; and share your knowledge on how to do it, thereby passing on both enthusiasm and expertise. This may lead to joyful success for others who have no idea how cool it is to create these flying machines.

best,

Kevin
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