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Old May 31, 2012, 07:45 PM
Fly fast, turn left
Joined May 2012
47 Posts
BJ64, a lot of good points covered. But.

When I started building models, I didn't have anyone that could help, and that was a long, long time ago. I messed up a lot of kits, they looked horrible, still, they were my efforts and I continued to learn by doing. It may sound strange, but still true, the hardest thing I ever did was learn to build and fly hand launched gliders. Not so odd, perhaps, they're still my number one, I just haven't got the arm I once had.

I know nothing about foam, I've had exactly two planes with foam wings, neither of them flew well enough that I bothered to go any further with foam. Which should make it evident, when it comes to repairing foam, don't ask me because I don't know.

Until buying an indoor heli a few months back, no experience with electric, and I've bought a few more to reconnect eyeballs, brain and fingers again. A plane that I could fly in the living room would be nice, but 12 by 14 feet isn't a lot of room for much of anything. That just described my experience with electrics.

If someone was to ask me to help them get started, I'd have no problems with it, more than willing, but so far it appears there won't be many, if any. It's not like it was before, when I might have three for four young guys in my work room, and all of us taking care of the problems they created, sometimes even going as far as scrap it and start again. ("But this time listen to me!")

I don't think it's a matter of underestimating our skills as it is of other people thinking I have them. The real skill consists of looking at each step as you complete it, ask "Do I like this or don't I?", and if the answer is no, undo it and do it again. There aren't any dark secrets, it's just a matter of how much time you're willing to give each step to get it right. I don't have fuselage or wing jigs, never saw much use for either, or maybe not much need for them. A flat workbench is my answer to either of them. The appearance of the end result is always the result of the time spent, making each step right before moving on, backing up when you have to and there's always time to do it right the second time.

Someone else mentioned maybe the ARF and RTF flyers don't like being told they should build, which is probably true. But at the same time they have to know if they like the way a plane I have is flying, the only way they'll ever get one like it is to build. They maybe they learn there's a tremendous satisfaction in flying something you made yourself.

Rich.
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Old Jun 01, 2012, 09:41 AM
The wheels touch down FIRST??
BJ64's Avatar
Australia, VIC, Melbourne
Joined Jun 2009
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I think the "real skill" here Greybeard is to firstly knock down the barriers of the 'us and them' mentality.

I don't say this lightly - nor do I say it to inflame any ill-sentiment towards anyone.

And I'm certainly trying to stay 'on topic' here: "How do we bring model building back?"

I'm relatively new to all things RC, and I'm keen to give all aspects of it a decent try (money and time permitting, of course).

I've read a fair bit of this thread, and I can't help to notice that there seems to be this impassable chasm between 'builders' and the rest of the world.

I hear it a local fields, and I read it on threads.

I feel that it's not so much a matter of getting people back - per se - but uniting the RC fraternity as a whole.

These are only my opinions based on what I see and what I hear, mind you.

I'm starting to think that I fly amongst a certain group of people from a different ilk to what some people say in this thread. The guys I fly with generally don't get into "put down" mode - they're a great bunch of blokes who often love to share whatever it is that they fly.

The essence, it seems, is not about what they fly or how it came into being, but that they fly. Pure and simple.

Having said that, I still sense this stigma between different groups of flyers - based purely on my own observations and opinions.

The sooner RC'ers learn to respect and embrace each other for the mere fact that they all fly something, the better.

I don't want to keep harping on about what I've already said in various forms before and clogging this thread with what is probably starting to sound like rhetoric

But... I see it. I hear it. And I feel it. This divisiveness between seemingly disparate groups of people all heading for the same goal - to fly RC...

/rant

BJ
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Old Jun 01, 2012, 10:38 AM
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United States, IL, Joliet
Joined Jun 2009
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Bj64 i think there is a little of us and them here on the forums because people here get behind there computer and can say things here that they would never say at their field. I have been on these forums for 5 or 6 years in many threads about arf's and scratch built planes and the ones that get fired up the most and sling most of the mud is the ones that fly the arfs. I will say it again ,most builders i know don't care what the others fly ,our minds are on building or fine tuning our last plane we finished or picking out our next build. It's when the arf subject is brought up the arf people get defensive and its (i have no time to build) or arfs are much better than a scratch built plane . One or two admit they have not got the skills to build but we know they dont want to even try to learn. Now iam not going to come right out and say they are lazy but its sure a possibility.lol I will take any flack for my statements but thats how i see the us and them theory and i dont think it will change any time soon. I have club members(my friends) who buy 2000 buck arfs and put another 5 or 6 thousand more into one plane and their planes are nice but not my cup of tea. joe
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Old Jun 01, 2012, 11:17 AM
Fly fast, turn left
Joined May 2012
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It goes back a lot further than the "Build vs ARF" thing. I can remember the FF guys complaining about RC, "Put a radio and huge engine in anything and you can make it fly.", which is just as untrue as any of the other blanket statements.

Not everyone wants to build, and not everyone should build. There are people that like to sit and pick the nits until it takes them years to finish off even a small model, okay, that's their thing. There are others that by their personalities are not given the patience to build even a simple model and do it well, those should stick with RTF or ARF. There's room for both, and I think most flyers know that once you start to build, the designs you have access to, the modifications you can make become unlimited. To some, that's not important, to others, it's everything.

It comes down to personal preference, I like building, and I don't like how an ARF or RTF handles, not a lot of choice for me. Not that I like the way every kit or scratch built flys, The Bridi designed, RCM published and now Great Planes kitted RCM 40 trainer to me handles like a dog. How any plane can "feel" heavy through the radio, I don't understand, but it just lacks the feel of "lightness". Again, personal preference, but not something I'd name for a newbie. A lot of people do, and that's their preference, probably just as valid as mine.

IF someone doesn't like RTF or ARF, nothing is going to convince them to try it, and if someone doesn't want to build, nothing will get them to build. If they decide they want to try it, okay, but no guarantee they'll build more than one. And no guarantee they'll fly another RTF or ARF either. It's a personal choice, should be left that way.

Rich.
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Old Jun 01, 2012, 11:36 AM
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United States, IL, Joliet
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greybeard01 View Post
It goes back a lot further than the "Build vs ARF" thing. I can remember the FF guys complaining about RC, "Put a radio and huge engine in anything and you can make it fly.", which is just as untrue as any of the other blanket statements.

Not everyone wants to build, and not everyone should build. There are people that like to sit and pick the nits until it takes them years to finish off even a small model, okay, that's their thing. There are others that by their personalities are not given the patience to build even a simple model and do it well, those should stick with RTF or ARF. There's room for both, and I think most flyers know that once you start to build, the designs you have access to, the modifications you can make become unlimited. To some, that's not important, to others, it's everything.

It comes down to personal preference, I like building, and I don't like how an ARF or RTF handles, not a lot of choice for me. Not that I like the way every kit or scratch built flys, The Bridi designed, RCM published and now Great Planes kitted RCM 40 trainer to me handles like a dog. How any plane can "feel" heavy through the radio, I don't understand, but it just lacks the feel of "lightness". Again, personal preference, but not something I'd name for a newbie. A lot of people do, and that's their preference, probably just as valid as mine.

IF someone doesn't like RTF or ARF, nothing is going to convince them to try it, and if someone doesn't want to build, nothing will get them to build. If they decide they want to try it, okay, but no guarantee they'll build more than one. And no guarantee they'll fly another RTF or ARF either. It's a personal choice, should be left that way.

Rich.
I agree with you Rich it should be left as a choice and no one should be beat up on for building or arfs . I would hope tho some arf flyers would once in their life give it a try and many do later on in life. I started to build because they had no arfs when i started flying but its a whole new ball game now. joe
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Old Jun 01, 2012, 12:17 PM
Fly fast, turn left
Joined May 2012
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Originally Posted by cracksmeup View Post
I agree with you Rich it should be left as a choice and no one should be beat up on for building or arfs . I would hope tho some arf flyers would once in their life give it a try and many do later on in life. I started to build because they had no arfs when i started flying but its a whole new ball game now. joe
I started to want to build when someone my dad knew showed me a framed but not covered Comet Taylorcraft, the 54 inch rubber powered model. Hooked, that started me going. It was only one of his, I know there were some warplanes, but that was too long ago for memory now.

Then I found it wasn't so easy. Just kept going though.

Rich.
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Old Jun 01, 2012, 04:25 PM
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Australia, QLD, Booyal
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There are some very nice planes out at pur club and you can pick the built ones from a mile away (there not green so there not a boomerang, that what the major plane here is) if i like the looks and rhe way she is in the sky, ill go and not the usual "how much did it cost?" question i here so many ask but whats the name?, how hard was it to build?, how long did it take you?. I hear so many people ask that cost question then get dis heartened. Ive invited so many people to build and offer assistance that im acared that one day theyll all come back in one large swarm like zombies. Building also allows you to do something rc related on a rainy day or that club flying day when all your planes are grounded for one reason or another. How do we bring model building back? Think of it as fishing Offer assistance(Berley), get them interested (bait on the hook), when they turn up THEY ARE HOOKED!!! And thats it
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Old Jun 01, 2012, 04:28 PM
Crikey never leave beer behind
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Mt Annan Sydney Australia
Joined Dec 2003
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And introduce them to RCgroups and build threads
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Old Jun 01, 2012, 04:42 PM
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Australia, QLD, Booyal
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And that of course. I reckon theyd see that on the computer screen in the workshop. Also anything i dont know i would lay money on that some one here would
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Old Jun 07, 2012, 06:23 AM
The wheels touch down FIRST??
BJ64's Avatar
Australia, VIC, Melbourne
Joined Jun 2009
23,937 Posts
Soooo......

Who's building what atm...?

BJ
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Old Jun 07, 2012, 06:50 AM
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Eclipse_7's Avatar
United States, TX, Houston
Joined Nov 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BJ64 View Post
Soooo......

Who's building what atm...?

BJ
I seem to spend more time deciding what to build, than actual building ATM. I've been browsing the Outerzone the past few days, hopefully I can make a trip to the local print shop today.
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Old Jun 07, 2012, 06:54 AM
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United States, MD, Elkton
Joined Oct 2011
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Bj64-Hi.-Wbwatm ? I'm a builder for over fifty years.I asemble ARFs to support my end of the hobby.One reason is to make money....but the more important reason to me ,is to ensure that someone who has no experience in building anything,will be successful..I bring 'em into the shop,and show them how to do it,but if they are incapable of doing the work,it's okay if they go.

"Building" is required whether an ARF or not.Most of the 'work' is done obviously,but some are not able to channel the energy to do it.They just can't !

My joy lies in the construction of Golden Age Aircraft,and larger Old Timers.I have a couple of threads as discussions,and builds,in case anyone wants to watch,or add their thoughts....It's kinda' like meeting in someone's shop and visiting.Many ideas are exchanged,and things learned.

Occasionally,we get someone wanting to learn how to build,but you can't MAKE them want to...I do note that there are younger people building(check out Ashley's build)and they may bring in a friend or two.
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Old Jun 07, 2012, 12:54 PM
AndyKunz's Avatar
Illinois
Joined Sep 2001
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BJ64 View Post
Soooo......

Who's building what atm...?

BJ
It's summer (on the important side of the planet )!

I got 6 new models from the past winter to play with!

Andy
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Old Jun 07, 2012, 01:11 PM
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It's summer (on the important side of the planet )!

I got 6 new models from the past winter to play with!

Andy
That's good planning on your part....my plans all got blown away..I can't build as fast as I used to,but I get to test fly a lot of planes that aren't mine !
My Cub will be ready for tomorrow evening,though..
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Old Jun 07, 2012, 09:07 PM
Heads up...
RMCCOR7737's Avatar
United States, VA, Stafford
Joined Jun 2009
744 Posts
I have been watching this thread for awhile now. I got two kinda build threads on here. I have been getting back into building again since my motorcycle accident in 2009, so for the last 3 years. I got a 36" Peter Rake SPAD XIII on the table at the moment. My first "Scale'ish" build. http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1642443 And an ACE All Star I converted to electric from plans from theses threads here. http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1598332. My 8 year old is starting to get interested in the plans now. He wants me to build one for him when I am done with the Spad. I'm going to try to get him interested in the building part of it also. We'll see what happens I guess.
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