HobbyKing.com New Products Flash Sale
Reply
Thread Tools
Old Aug 27, 2009, 11:31 AM
Registered User
Greygoosegregg's Avatar
United States, CA, Simi Valley
Joined Feb 2008
258 Posts
A Few Pics

Here are a few pics of what I have done so far. I'm waiting for the HS-5645MG to show up.

I used three layers of carbon fiber uni on both side walls in the wing area. This thing is supper strong now. With the added structure of the elevator serve mounts, the fuse is extremely ridged.

There was a pimple towards the rear of the fuse. I popped that sucker, and filled with resin. While the wings are being bagged, I plan on painting the fuse. Just contemplating colors. Hmmmmmmmm...
Greygoosegregg is offline Find More Posts by Greygoosegregg
Reply With Quote
Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
Old Aug 27, 2009, 11:37 AM
Registered User
Greygoosegregg's Avatar
United States, CA, Simi Valley
Joined Feb 2008
258 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sleedo
Two 225-MGs would work fine on the Phoenix in a pitcheron config, that is what Ed/Skyking recommended on the Shrike and this plane is no bigger than that. On my Phoenix I used a single 645MG on a 4.8v pack and it was great until my wing rod started to rust from the salt air on Cape Cod. It was the oddest thing because only one side became oxidized and it happened throughout the course of one flying session. I suspect that the wing tube is some sort of cheap steel and not brass which led to the rapid rusting.

Regarding the incidence, yes the wing is easier to adjust so I would go ahead and glue the tails on.

One more caveat, the fuse of my plane was as brittle as porcelain, I would lay some more glass into the cockpit or kevlar if you have it.


edit: oops, didn't read the part about how you reinforced the cockpit already, carry on
I was thinking about installing two servos making it a pitcheron. How are pitcherons compared to wingerons? Aren't most pitcherons V tails? I'm not going to do that now, but I had thought about it.
Greygoosegregg is offline Find More Posts by Greygoosegregg
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 27, 2009, 12:27 PM
WINDEPENDENT
slopepilot's Avatar
United States, CA, Beaumont
Joined Dec 2007
3,283 Posts
you can use 2 servos for wingeron...makes trimming ALOT easier...instead of manual adjustment on the clevis..you can program it in,,,,if theres room for two
slopepilot is online now Find More Posts by slopepilot
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 27, 2009, 12:33 PM
Registered User
Greygoosegregg's Avatar
United States, CA, Simi Valley
Joined Feb 2008
258 Posts
Good Call. That would make setting the incident easier.... Damn.... lol
Greygoosegregg is offline Find More Posts by Greygoosegregg
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 27, 2009, 12:35 PM
Confirmed Chronic
screamin' eagle's Avatar
Pacific Palisades, CA
Joined Jul 2004
9,253 Posts
A lot of pitcherons tend to be a bit soft in elevator response. Shrike excepted. Tail format doesn't matter. Wingerons give you the best of both roll and pitch authority.

Great servo choice, by the way.
screamin' eagle is online now Find More Posts by screamin' eagle
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 27, 2009, 01:38 PM
Registered User
Greygoosegregg's Avatar
United States, CA, Simi Valley
Joined Feb 2008
258 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by screamin' eagle
A lot of pitcherons tend to be a bit soft in elevator response. Shrike excepted. Tail format doesn't matter. Wingerons give you the best of both roll and pitch authority.

Great servo choice, by the way.
Nice!!! I can't wait to fly this glider. I know that the roll rate on pitcheron and wingerons are crazy. Thanks for your suggstions. Really helped me make up my mind.

Do you have any tricks on measuring and adjusting the incident? Or do I have to buy a measuring devise for this?

Gregg
Greygoosegregg is offline Find More Posts by Greygoosegregg
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 27, 2009, 01:45 PM
Confirmed Chronic
screamin' eagle's Avatar
Pacific Palisades, CA
Joined Jul 2004
9,253 Posts
My experience has been that eyeballing incidence on twisty-wing planes is a real challenge. I'd suggest getting the robart meter and getting it right so the maiden isn't too exciting. Especially true with one wing servo, because adjusting the incidence in the field so that the wings stay level with each other will be difficult.
screamin' eagle is online now Find More Posts by screamin' eagle
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 27, 2009, 03:36 PM
Registered User
Joined Jul 2006
371 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by screamin' eagle
Even at 45" span, using a single 85mg for wing duties is asking for lock-up at higher speeds IMO.

So...is the S148 wing servo in my CR Turbo ST asking for trouble? I'm serious - I haven't maidened it yet. Will mass balancing the wings prevent high speed errors?

Chris
c.walker is offline Find More Posts by c.walker
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 27, 2009, 03:44 PM
Confirmed Chronic
screamin' eagle's Avatar
Pacific Palisades, CA
Joined Jul 2004
9,253 Posts
Are you running it on 6 volts? Those wings will generate a lot of force at full deflection. Mass balancing may help with flutter but I'd be more concerned about lock-out in a dive. I can't say whether it will be enough or not, but I wouldn't risk it if the plane were mine (and I'm a notorious cheapskate).

I had an Airtech Pixel a long time ago, which is a very light, 60" pitcheron. Recommendation was for two 40-50 oz-in servos to run the wings. I used a couple of standard hitec servos on 6 volts, which generated 45 oz-in each of torque. I could most definitely feel those servos struggling in steeper dives, probably in the 80-90 mph range. They never did lock up, but moving an entire wing in flight is a pretty tough job for even a standard-sized servo.
screamin' eagle is online now Find More Posts by screamin' eagle
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 27, 2009, 03:48 PM
Registered User
Joined Jul 2006
371 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greygoosegregg
Hi C. Walker,

LOL Yea, this it the one from Fermin. =)


I'm not sure what the nominal airfoil should be. Can you send me some info on that. I am going to bag the wing today. The LE looked good to me, but I don't know. One thing I noticed was the right wing was warped just a bit. I plan on fixing this with the carbon fiber bagging process. I hope it works out.

Thanks,

Gregg

The Phoenix is closely...related...to the CR Turbo. The Turbo's various incarnations used the S3021 (Turbo ST), S3016 (Turbo S - closest to yours), and RG15 / SD8020 for the glass version. It's probably either the S3016 or RG15.

Even if it's not any of these, I'd still radius the LE a bit more, perhaps to a 3 mm radius or so. Sharp LE's are nasty tip stalls waiting to happen.

You can untwist wood sheeted wings slightly by misting them with water, and then drying them under pressure. It's easiest if you have the core beds. If you don't, a flat surface and a lot of phone books (heavy, yet floppy) might work. I've only done this once; your mileage may vary.
c.walker is offline Find More Posts by c.walker
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 27, 2009, 04:55 PM
Twisted and Confused
flyonline's Avatar
Joined May 2003
4,353 Posts
I've got 225s in my shrike and they've worked flawlessly so far.

Try 20 deg total movement (10 each way) to start with, you might not get drill bit rolls but you won't get caught out either with the high speed rolls. After that you can adjust to taste.

If you don't have a incidence meter you can stand on the lip of the slope and hold the plane about the CG and get someone else to wriggle the sticks so you can get a feel of if you incidence is somewhere close. MAKE SURE YOUR WINGS MOVE THE RIGHT WAY - don't ask how I know this one

Re: mass balancing, I'm not sure if you really need it unless you're going for speck height pin drops. I recently mass balanced the wings on my 80" Orca pitcheron and it is now rock solid at speed in the dive whereas before it did have a tendancy to get a bit wavy - kinda scary when you're 10' off the deck!

Steve
flyonline is offline Find More Posts by flyonline
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 27, 2009, 05:43 PM
Registered User
Greygoosegregg's Avatar
United States, CA, Simi Valley
Joined Feb 2008
258 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by flyonline
I've got 225s in my shrike and they've worked flawlessly so far.

Try 20 deg total movement (10 each way) to start with, you might not get drill bit rolls but you won't get caught out either with the high speed rolls. After that you can adjust to taste.

If you don't have a incidence meter you can stand on the lip of the slope and hold the plane about the CG and get someone else to wriggle the sticks so you can get a feel of if you incidence is somewhere close. MAKE SURE YOUR WINGS MOVE THE RIGHT WAY - don't ask how I know this one

Re: mass balancing, I'm not sure if you really need it unless you're going for speck height pin drops. I recently mass balanced the wings on my 80" Orca pitcheron and it is now rock solid at speed in the dive whereas before it did have a tendancy to get a bit wavy - kinda scary when you're 10' off the deck!

Steve
The 225MG's are what I was going to use, but I'd rather be safe then sorry. Besides, the shrike is a pitcheron, right? So the servo load is half of a wingeron setup. Unless two servos are used as mentioned by Slopepilot.

BTW, I just bought a Robart meter on ebay. Don't want to leave my uncalibrated eye to chance.

How about the wingeron control rod? Do I glue this one in? Also should there be a shim between the fuse and wing, so it doesn't rub on the fuse? How much gap if any?

Gregg
Greygoosegregg is offline Find More Posts by Greygoosegregg
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 27, 2009, 05:53 PM
Confirmed Chronic
screamin' eagle's Avatar
Pacific Palisades, CA
Joined Jul 2004
9,253 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greygoosegregg
The 225MG's are what I was going to use, but I'd rather be safe then sorry. Besides, the shrike is a pitcheron, right? So the servo load is half of a wingeron setup. Unless two servos are used as mentioned by Slopepilot.

BTW, I just bought a Robart meter on ebay. Don't want to leave my uncalibrated eye to chance.

How about the wingeron control rod? Do I glue this one in? Also should there be a shim between the fuse and wing, so it doesn't rub on the fuse? How much gap if any?

Gregg
You don't want to glue the wing rod in anywhere. It should be free floating both in the wings and in the wing rod tube housed in the fuse. For shims, you can either use large thin plastic washers or circular felt pads. Just make sure there isn't any binding.

At the rate you're going, you'll be maidening on Sunday.
screamin' eagle is online now Find More Posts by screamin' eagle
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 27, 2009, 06:21 PM
Registered User
flyzwell's Avatar
So Cal
Joined May 2008
2,633 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by c.walker
So...is the S148 wing servo in my CR Turbo ST asking for trouble? I'm serious - I haven't maidened it yet. Will mass balancing the wings prevent high speed errors?

Chris
You should be fine. I run a HS 81 in mine and it only has a tiny bit more torque. Flies great, no problems.
flyzwell is offline Find More Posts by flyzwell
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 27, 2009, 07:06 PM
Registered User
Greygoosegregg's Avatar
United States, CA, Simi Valley
Joined Feb 2008
258 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by screamin' eagle
You don't want to glue the wing rod in anywhere. It should be free floating both in the wings and in the wing rod tube housed in the fuse. For shims, you can either use large thin plastic washers or circular felt pads. Just make sure there isn't any binding.

At the rate you're going, you'll be maidening on Sunday.
Okay, but if I don't glue the control rod into the wing, Not the main wing rod, but the control rod, then what is to keep the wing from sliding off? The main wing rod slides in and out of the wing, and once the collars are on the control rods, it will be the same thing as the main wing rod. The wing will be able to slide freely on and off.

I wish I could maiden her this Sunday. I will be bagging the second wing tomorrow, and it wont be cured until Sat. I'm waiting for my HS-5645mg to show up in the mail, it might show up tomorrow. Then I have to glue in the servo mounts. Install the wingeron control hardware. And I still have to wait for the robart to get here so I can set the incident. While I'm waiting for that, I'll paint the fuse, and some sort of pattern on the wings. Not to cover the carbon fiber, just to make flying it visually easier. All black wings are tough to see directionally, you know what I mean? Maybe next week some time.

Well, I'm off to the slope. Gonna maiden a Dago Red converted for slope today. Thanks again for your help.

Gregg
Greygoosegregg is offline Find More Posts by Greygoosegregg
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Category Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Mini Tornado Build Questions HavingFun2002 Foamies (Kits) 4 Apr 09, 2002 12:16 AM
U2 Glider Conversion Scratch Build Questions cactus Electric Sailplanes 6 Feb 14, 2002 08:10 AM
JK Aerotek Zero build questions psbowen Foamies (Kits) 2 Feb 02, 2002 11:17 AM
Voyager Build Questions...I'm Pulling My Hair Out jimmyG Electric Heli Talk 18 Jan 18, 2002 03:38 PM
Build Questions for a HL Mini Tornado jah Foamies (Kits) 21 Jan 14, 2002 01:13 PM