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Old Aug 25, 2009, 07:14 PM
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AMD Phoenix (Wingeron) Build Questions, Build, and Pics

Hi everyone out there!! Just bought the AMD Phoenix Wingeron, and the instructions are weak at best. I just have a few questions, since this is my first wingeron build.

First, How much torque is required of the wingeron servo? Does it have to be a digital servo, or just a good high torque servo? Are there any reasonable recommendations out there? I know that sky is the limit when it comes to servos, but what is good enough?

Second, the incident. Is this adjusted just from through the wing? I notice that the horizontal and vertical stab are bolted onto the fuse. Is this so it can be shimmed to adjust the incident? I would really like to epoxy both the horizontal and vertical on, but if I need to adjust the incident there, well, I can't quite do that. I would think that the fuse sets this angle, right?

Third and last for now. lol The wing, according to the so called instructions, is held on by the collar that locks the control rod from the wing to the wingeron linkage. This doesn't sound like it's very secured to me. Is the wing control rod supposed to be epoxied into the wing? I know that this sounds like a dumb question, but it doesn't seem like the control rod will bond that well to the copper receiver tube in the wing, since the slip fit is quite tight.

Since the wing covering was completely wrinkled, I have decided to remove all of the covering, which I discovered had some sort of epoxy or coating around the root area of the wing. This was brittle and lifting from the balsa, so I took a hot air gun and removed it with a Popsicle stick sanded to a chisel tip with rounded corners as to not gouge the balsa, which worked very well. I know that the root area was reinforced for a reason, so instead of recovering covering the wing with monocoat or some other covering material, I have decided to cover the whole wing with carbon fiber. I will lay it up tomorrow, and vac bag them down. I will post some pics when this is done. I have also added strips of carbon fiber uni to the inside of the fuse instead of the 1/16" plywood called out by the directions.

That is where I am in the build as of yet. And I look forward to the experience of all you builders out there for help.

Thanks for reading, and hope you can help me out.

Goose
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Old Aug 25, 2009, 07:23 PM
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The little collars are plenty to hold the wing on. I have accidentally flown a few wingerons/pitcherons without the collars (forgot 'em) and there were no incidents, even with high-speed rolls.
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Old Aug 25, 2009, 07:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by screamin' eagle
The little collars are plenty to hold the wing on. I have accidentally flown a few wingerons/pitcherons without the collars (forgot 'em) and there were no incidents, even with high-speed rolls.
As far as servos go, I'd go with at least 50-75 oz in per servo. Doesn't have to be digital although that helps! The cheapest and best way to increase torque is to run a 6 volt battery pack. Helps your servo speed too!
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Old Aug 25, 2009, 07:57 PM
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Nice! I was thinking about running the HS-225MG's that I've got at 6V, but my gut feeling is, it will still be on the shy side of the torque spectrum. Thanks for the advise on the collar.
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Old Aug 25, 2009, 08:28 PM
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I had one 112 oz-in servo running both wings on my Contender (similar span) at 6 volts, and it felt fine, although it was analog and left something to be desired centering-wise. I definitely wouldn't go any lower than 100 oz in combined torque. I would suggest a pair of 645mgs for analog, and 5645s for digital.
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Old Aug 25, 2009, 08:50 PM
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I'm using 2 645MG's on my Shredder on 4.8 volts, and under about 100 mph they're fine. After that you can see they struggle slightly, but for the price that's a decent servo.
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Old Aug 26, 2009, 08:34 AM
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Two 225-MGs would work fine on the Phoenix in a pitcheron config, that is what Ed/Skyking recommended on the Shrike and this plane is no bigger than that. On my Phoenix I used a single 645MG on a 4.8v pack and it was great until my wing rod started to rust from the salt air on Cape Cod. It was the oddest thing because only one side became oxidized and it happened throughout the course of one flying session. I suspect that the wing tube is some sort of cheap steel and not brass which led to the rapid rusting.

Regarding the incidence, yes the wing is easier to adjust so I would go ahead and glue the tails on.

One more caveat, the fuse of my plane was as brittle as porcelain, I would lay some more glass into the cockpit or kevlar if you have it.

edit: oops, didn't read the part about how you reinforced the cockpit already, carry on
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Old Aug 26, 2009, 12:06 PM
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I thought this one was the Contender knock-off, didn't realize it was under 60" span. In that case, yes, 225mgs will be fine, especially on 6 volts. I ran 5245s in my Shrike (the digital version of the 225) and didn't regret the extra $ one bit - centering was perfect.
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Old Aug 26, 2009, 12:39 PM
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Can you post a photo or two? I've never heard of this one, and a quick Google came up with nothing...
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Old Aug 27, 2009, 02:18 AM
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If this is the plane that was for sale at the Fermin swap meet, then:
1) It's really light, and only a 45" span or so, so a 225 MG is probably overkill. An 85 MG should be OK (as a wingeron, not as a pitcheron)
2) The LE shaping looked a bit off; way too sharp. You might want to get that sanded closer to the nominal airfoil before bagging it.
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Old Aug 27, 2009, 07:49 AM
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Box pics of the Phoenix:

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1034594
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Old Aug 27, 2009, 09:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by c.walker
If this is the plane that was for sale at the Fermin swap meet, then:
1) It's really light, and only a 45" span or so, so a 225 MG is probably overkill. An 85 MG should be OK (as a wingeron, not as a pitcheron)
2) The LE shaping looked a bit off; way too sharp. You might want to get that sanded closer to the nominal airfoil before bagging it.
Even at 45" span, using a single 85mg for wing duties is asking for lock-up at higher speeds IMO.
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Old Aug 27, 2009, 10:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by screamin' eagle
I had one 112 oz-in servo running both wings on my Contender (similar span) at 6 volts, and it felt fine, although it was analog and left something to be desired centering-wise. I definitely wouldn't go any lower than 100 oz in combined torque. I would suggest a pair of 645mgs for analog, and 5645s for digital.
Thanks Screamin Eagle. I went with the HS-5645MG. Don't want to have to worry about the centering, and it is the same weight with more torque then the HS-645MG. Thanks for the advise!!

Gregg
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Old Aug 27, 2009, 11:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by c.walker
If this is the plane that was for sale at the Fermin swap meet, then:
1) It's really light, and only a 45" span or so, so a 225 MG is probably overkill. An 85 MG should be OK (as a wingeron, not as a pitcheron)
2) The LE shaping looked a bit off; way too sharp. You might want to get that sanded closer to the nominal airfoil before bagging it.
Hi C. Walker,

LOL Yea, this it the one from Fermin. =)

After reading through the instructions it does call out 5KG.CM. = 69.43Oz.in as a min torque. Also calls out a Futaba S9303. The HS-5645MG has more torque, faster, digital, and lighter. For what it is, it's not that bad for $50.

I'm not sure what the nominal airfoil should be. Can you send me some info on that. I am going to bag the wing today. The LE looked good to me, but I don't know. One thing I noticed was the right wing was warped just a bit. I plan on fixing this with the carbon fiber bagging process. I hope it works out.

Thanks,

Gregg
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Old Aug 27, 2009, 11:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greygoosegregg
Thanks Screamin Eagle. I went with the HS-5645MG. Don't want to have to worry about the centering, and it is the same weight with more torque then the HS-645MG. Thanks for the advise!!

Gregg
perfect servo chioce greg
and the elevator can use an 82mg
dont sand the LE
the warp will come out after the covering is removed(the other wing was worse)
reinforce the cockpit is a good idea
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