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Old Aug 25, 2009, 02:58 AM
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MIA "Little Nellie" Scale RC Autogiro - Scratch Built - Wallis Flies!!!

I decided to make a new thread for this project since this is a project on its own and it is quite an undertaking making all the components from scratch to the level of detail that eventually will unfold in his thread.

After fooling around with several spseudo scalish designs of Little Nellie, in past years, I finally decided it was time to make one that I wanted to enjoy myself and perhaps others might too.

I am a big fan of 007 movies and very fond of helicopters and autogyros for the challenges and rewards they provide, so this is a special project that has been waiting for the right moment and motivation.

I think anyone that shares a similar interest will probably find this thread interesting.

One of my biggest motivators in this project has been my unsuccessful attempt to find an RC Scale Autogyro of Little Nellie that would fly and be true to detail of the real machine. I spent many years looking for one, only to find the ones that made an attempt of mimic'ing Little Nelly, suffered from poor detail or flight characteristics. Nevertheless credit should be given to those early models, that were hindered perhaps by lack of a better technology. We should not take for granted the times we live in. So much technology and magic to make anything happen! Give that some thought.

I must also point out that I have no special drawings or plans, which made this project even more challenging, since I've had to to do quite a bit of my own research and most of the drawings I had to create from scratch, for this model came by painstakingly scaling some very low resolution photographs of the real machine, I had, at the time I started this project.

Within the past month I stumbled on some new photographs that were posted by a Rich (safelandings) another autogyro enthusiast in this forum. I would like to thank Rich for sharing with us the various photos he posted here in RCG, of his trip to the Wallis place and the many interesting photos he took of the various autogiros MR. Walis has done. This helped greatly to clarify some of Little Nelly aircraft details that were obscure to me in the past years for lack of clear photos and information.

So here it goes, this is my rendition of this MIA 2009 Little Nellie - Scale RC Autogyro.


The main frame is all carbon with plastic fittings, has working pedals and a tempt flight gauge panel which I will make it better, right now it is just cardboard for test fitting. The frame although workable for flying, it will be replaced by the other frame from my other profile Little Nelly, which has built-in LG suspension and dampening and has a very cool rotor head,which I will show when I get to that stage of assembly.

I cut the mold plug for the vac formed body and engine cooling ducts, shaped it , sanded it, finished it and shot some preliminary bodies in yellow and silver, assembled it with the windshield, and painted the lower section all in one afternoon and evening. I need to do the rest of the artillery also.

I need to add the white and black Target design trim lines.

The machine guns are carbon rods with black tubing.

Tail fin is painted foam from the original prototype but I am going to mold it next so they match and are nice and shiny professional looking with the body. I am also going to mold also an engine cover as soon as some motors arrive, but I am happy so far with the way it looks...
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Old Aug 25, 2009, 03:57 AM
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The holy grail of autogyros?

Hello Mario,

Absolutely beautiful work, I wish you well in the completion and flying of this excellent art form you have made, Good luck sir, it is marvelous, Cheers,

regards Al
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Old Aug 25, 2009, 04:05 AM
It was a GLITCH! Honestly!
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Stourport on Severn ,Worcestershire, United Kingdom
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Very, Very nice work!!

I'm glad the photos have helped ..if you need anymore just ask..I took 100s!!

I to will be attempting a Nellie in the next month or so too, I have asked Ken Wallis and he is happy with me to do so. He has sent me his original drawings to help me out and has also given me ideas through many letters.
I did ask him about the accuracy of the dreaded CG/ thrust line, he said not to worrry as long as your thrustline is above the CG and well forwards it should fly. He started going on about more important things like centre of drag...I was lost then
He did also mention that the closest to seeing a Nellie fly was a Micromold version, infact he did have one in his museum but some 'low life' pinched it. He stated that he never did like the heli head on it, but Im sure it would be invisible whilst flying.
I will be writing again to him this week, would you mind if I send him a photo of your work?

My model will only be semi scale to start with as Im sure it will have teething problems...it will be good to see how yours flies?

Great work again


Regards Rich
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Old Aug 25, 2009, 08:07 AM
AND FOR MY NEXT TRICK....!
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Omaha Millard, Nebraska, United States
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Man! As they say over seas...."Spot on!" Looks great! I'll be watching closely...I hope the black and white target design works well. That's going to be tough!
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Old Aug 25, 2009, 10:00 AM
Suck it and see
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Joined Aug 2008
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Nice work Mario, please keep the thread going with your progress.

Regards
John
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Old Aug 25, 2009, 10:16 AM
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Great looking gyro I love the detailing very very nice! Just hope mine looks as close to scale when I finish. Keep the piccys coming.
oh! cant really tell but what sort of size is she?

Cali
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Old Aug 25, 2009, 02:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SafeLandings
Very, Very nice work!!

I'm glad the photos have helped ..if you need anymore just ask..I took 100s!!

I to will be attempting a Nellie in the next month or so too, I have asked Ken Wallis and he is happy with me to do so. He has sent me his original drawings to help me out and has also given me ideas through many letters.
I did ask him about the accuracy of the dreaded CG/ thrust line, he said not to worrry as long as your thrustline is above the CG and well forwards it should fly. He started going on about more important things like centre of drag...I was lost then
He did also mention that the closest to seeing a Nellie fly was a Micromold version, infact he did have one in his museum but some 'low life' pinched it. He stated that he never did like the heli head on it, but Im sure it would be invisible whilst flying.
I will be writing again to him this week, would you mind if I send him a photo of your work?

My model will only be semi scale to start with as Im sure it will have teething problems...it will be good to see how yours flies?

Great work again


Regards Rich
Thanks Rich.

I am planning on sending MR. Wallis one when I am done. Absolutely, I do not mind you sending him my photos on this project and if I can maybe contact him directly, if you can provide me a contact address phone number, I would appreciate it and it would be an honor to at least say hello to him and share with him some words of appreciation for his amazing work.

I am confident and it has also been the challenge of this project to make this autogyro fly, and fly like the real thing. I would not have taken this project to this detail level without testing first, various teetering rotor heads, this has been the other motivator. Although a rotor head is not in iself the defining factor to a great flying model it is am inportant piece of the puzzle.

Just as in RC helicopters there are various ways of doing a flybarless rotor head, there are various ways for making teetering heads for RC autogyros. I don't want to sound like an expert on the subject, but if you understand the dynamics that happens when a rotor is motion, drag, lift, action, reaction and employ a bit of logic and a bit of know how, and what exactly you want the rotor head to do, things become a bit more clear.

Thrust Line

There is so much being said on real autogyro theory about the location of the thrust line, in line with CG, above or below. It should be kept in mind that there is really no wrong way, in placing a thrust line in any of these positions provided that other aerodynamic factors are taken into account. For instance, a high thrust line aided by the correct location, geometry and area of a stabilizing surfaces can and will balance out the autogyro equilibrium , much as one with a low thust line without the aid of such devices. Of course there are limits.

Center of Rotor Drag
I believe this can be best understood wth a working model of a rotor head and analyzing all the vector forces working upon it. Also taking into acoount positive and negative dynamic stability. As a rotor in motion is always under changes in such in itself due to disemmetry of lift.

Working on the fuel tank and remaining artillery molds.. will have more photos soon, thanks guys for the support and possitive words.
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Old Aug 26, 2009, 04:56 AM
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Target Details, Flight Panel, Gas Tank and Gimbal Cover

Ok.. I molded the gas tank, gimbal cover and flight control panel with meter gauges. The gauges are in blue ink temporarily, I am laying them out in CAD so they come out much better. The gauges do have clear lenses for that extra touch of realism. I need to work a bit more on the simulated gas tank, once I get the motor this will determine the support for it and how this will fit with the tank and air scoops, for now it looks just about right.

I need to layout the electronics, next, servos and control links, the rudder servo will wortk the rudder and the front wheel.

So here are some more photos. The white and black trim with target details took me a good portion of the night, it was painstaking making the target, a combination of white paint with ultra thin black packaging tape cut with a compass fitted with an Exacto blade, but they really add to the asthetics. I also added 3 micro screws with simulated (black tape) washers to support the control panel, I think the real Nelly also support the control panel this way, in addition made with black thin tape and a small punch the simulated winshield support screws.

P.S. I just realized the target largest black ring breaks at the white side stripes, so I will fix this next time.
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Old Aug 26, 2009, 07:34 AM
AND FOR MY NEXT TRICK....!
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Omaha Millard, Nebraska, United States
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Wow...it looks so good, I would be afraid to fly it!

Excellent work! Your nose target looks great!
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Old Aug 26, 2009, 04:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jodini
Wow...it looks so good, I would be afraid to fly it!

Excellent work! Your nose target looks great!
Thanks again. I know, it would be a pain to crash this model and rebuilt it, but the frame is well reinforced and it is carbon and fiberglass so to minimize the likelyhood of major damage. I learned a lot when I was designing RC Hangliders -Trikes (http://www.micro-flight.com/museum.htm)

World's First! RC Trike-RC Microlight-RC Ultralight-RC Hang Glider Deltaplano Powered Flex Wing (4 min 45 sec)


about frames and how pusher models behave in 0 and negative G forces. When you enter them there is nothing that will save it on a pusher model, having the right geometry and use of materials is important to minimize transfering crash loads to other parts of the model.

I have moved the front wheel (no longer in true scale) on the foamie Nellie, I built earlier, to give the nose more protection. I may do the same on this one.

The scale Nelly is not a model to experiment with so everything has to be precise. I have tested various autogyros of similar configuration in the proccess of making sure there is no room for error, on this one, but things can go well or wrong in actual flight. I have built a wind tunnel and a much better jig to simulate the flight dynamics and make trim adjustments before real flight takes over. But I am still a bit of a way for the actual flight. I am not worried about the flight characteristics so much (I think readers will understand what I mean by this, later on), as I am am nailing the actual look so I am concentrating on the details...

I received the motor and electronics so I am working on the fitting of such.
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Old Aug 26, 2009, 10:02 PM
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Mario,

Super great work! Your profile is even something to marvel at. It looks great, and Sir Wallis looks like he's ready to take to the skies!

Mike
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Old Aug 28, 2009, 06:19 AM
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Testing the flight Dynamics with an RC sim

Thanks Mike.

I customized this RF RC SIM model with similar parameters as my real RC model and was testing it in the sim. I added a prerotator switch on the SIM model and may do that also on the RC one, once everything runs smoothly manually.
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Old Aug 28, 2009, 09:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarioIArguello
Thanks Mike.

I customized this RF RC SIM model with similar parameters as my real RC model and was testing it in the sim. I added a prerotator switch on the SIM model and may do that also on the RC one, once everything runs smoothly manually.
Hello,
I want to say that you've done a very nice job with your RF sim modification! Have you uploaded it to the Knife Edge site? I would love to have that file for my RF G4.5! Again.....great Job!
Best Regards,
-Mike
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Old Aug 28, 2009, 05:23 PM
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Thanks Mike,

The model is for G3.5 so it will probably not work in 4.5.

MIA LITTLE NELLIE (Nelly) AUTOGIROS RF SIM (4 min 48 sec)
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Old Aug 29, 2009, 02:38 AM
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Baden-Baden, Germany
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Hello Mario...........

Very nice work, I hope to see the finished scale little Nellie in the air soon. Having the "bad habits" at low G of an autogyro on the SIM is really needed to get a feeling for it before starting with the real RC-autogyro. I really miss this on the autogyros I have for my clearview sim..........

BTW, You mentioned that You have build a wind-tunnel for testing Your rotors. I played with the thought of building a wind-tunnel some time ago, but when I looked at the prices of the electric fans needed I stopped thinking about it. So I would be curious to see some photographs of Your wind-tunnel and see how You solved this problem.

Bye
Mike
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