SMALL - espritmodel.com SMALL - Telemetry SMALL - Radio
Reply
Thread Tools
Old Apr 19, 2010, 09:27 PM
Registered User
Adelaide,South Australia
Joined Jul 2003
1,134 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by f4addict View Post
does anyone know, where i can get replacement retracts???? i just need the nose gear.

Even if anyone has plans for hand launching and would like to get rid of retracts,, i'll be glad to buy them.
ill be getting rid of my retracts, retract servos, thrust vectoring nozzles, TV linkages, chute, nose wheel linkages and servo.

ive got it now so can separate if you wish.

but i am in australia so shipping might be a bit costly.
what_the?! is offline Find More Posts by what_the?!
Reply With Quote
Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
Old Apr 20, 2010, 05:58 AM
Fly, Crash, Burn,
f4addict's Avatar
United States, CT, Danbury
Joined Jul 2008
667 Posts
that's great, not a problem, i'll grab the retracts especially the nose gear. whenever you get a chance, let me know with the shipping i pm'ed you the address.
f4addict is offline Find More Posts by f4addict
Reply With Quote
Old Apr 20, 2010, 08:52 AM
Registered User
hklagges's Avatar
Munich
Joined Dec 2008
1,145 Posts
Hello Commando,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mtn_Commando View Post
Moreover, see pics of the real SU47...notice how they all have canard up even with the aircraft being nose up
This is a misunderstanding. All the photos you show here have the canard DOWN, at least as far as I understand the term (the leading edge of the canard down).

I had to trim the canard with the leading edge up, i.e. a positive angle of attack, generating lift upwards.

Cheers,
Henrik
hklagges is offline Find More Posts by hklagges
Reply With Quote
Old Apr 20, 2010, 09:13 AM
Registered User
Mtn_Commando's Avatar
United States, CA, Dublin
Joined Sep 2008
1,007 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by hklagges View Post
Hello Commando,


This is a misunderstanding. All the photos you show here have the canard DOWN, at least as far as I understand the term (the leading edge of the canard down).

I had to trim the canard with the leading edge up, i.e. a positive angle of attack, generating lift upwards.

Cheers,
Henrik
Oh ok. Interesting. Well I'll be trying to duplicate the actual SU with a heavy tail and slight down canard. Lets see how that works.
Mtn_Commando is offline Find More Posts by Mtn_Commando
Reply With Quote
Old Apr 20, 2010, 03:54 PM
Registered User
Adelaide,South Australia
Joined Jul 2003
1,134 Posts
some definitions of terminology.

canard= the control surface configuration where there is a wing, tail,- or wing/tail (delta), and foreplane. The term "canard" is short for "canard configuration". The control surfaces in front of the wing are called "foreplanes". They are not "canards".

the foreplane up position is with the leading edge up. and vice versa.

so which is it to keep this bird level?

up or down?
what_the?! is offline Find More Posts by what_the?!
Reply With Quote
Old Apr 20, 2010, 06:08 PM
Registered User
hklagges's Avatar
Munich
Joined Dec 2008
1,145 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by what_the?! View Post
canard= the control surface configuration where there is a wing, tail,- or wing/tail (delta), and foreplane. The term "canard" is short for "canard configuration". The control surfaces in front of the wing are called "foreplanes". They are not "canards".
From Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canard_%28aeronautics%29: "In aeronautics, canard (French for duck) is an airframe configuration of fixed-wing aircraft in which the FRONT CANARD SURFACE is smaller than the rear main wing," or "The first airplane to fly, the Wright Flyer, was a lifting-canard. In this configuration, the weight of the aircraft is shared between the main wing and the CANARD WING." or "At high angles of attack the CANARD SURFACE directs airflow downwards over the wing, " etc.pp.

So for me it is clear from these quotes and from the rest of the Wikipedia article that the little front wing can very well be called a canard wing or in short, a canard (You can also call it foreplane, and you can call the whole wing configuration a canard configuration, so what?). You are starting to step on my nerves a bit by repeatedly insisting on your narrow definition, which btw appears to be plain WRONG .

Back to Su-47!

Cheers,
Henrik
hklagges is offline Find More Posts by hklagges
Reply With Quote
Old Apr 20, 2010, 07:09 PM
Fly, Crash, Burn,
f4addict's Avatar
United States, CT, Danbury
Joined Jul 2008
667 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mtn_Commando View Post
Oh ok. Interesting. Well I'll be trying to duplicate the actual SU with a heavy tail and slight down canard. Lets see how that works.
for real?? no wonder they need so many computers on board to compute all that stuff.

So are you planning to set the cg behind the one given by factory?
f4addict is offline Find More Posts by f4addict
Reply With Quote
Old Apr 20, 2010, 07:25 PM
Fly, Crash, Burn,
f4addict's Avatar
United States, CT, Danbury
Joined Jul 2008
667 Posts
different schemes for su-47, from acecombat 6 for anyone who wants to be creative then the regular black.
f4addict is offline Find More Posts by f4addict
Reply With Quote
Old Apr 20, 2010, 07:27 PM
Registered User
Adelaide,South Australia
Joined Jul 2003
1,134 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by hklagges View Post
From Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canard_%28aeronautics%29: "In aeronautics, canard (French for duck) is an airframe configuration of fixed-wing aircraft in which the FRONT CANARD SURFACE is smaller than the rear main wing," or "The first airplane to fly, the Wright Flyer, was a lifting-canard. In this configuration, the weight of the aircraft is shared between the main wing and the CANARD WING." or "At high angles of attack the CANARD SURFACE directs airflow downwards over the wing, " etc.pp.

So for me it is clear from these quotes and from the rest of the Wikipedia article that the little front wing can very well be called a canard wing or in short, a canard (You can also call it foreplane, and you can call the whole wing configuration a canard configuration, so what?). You are starting to step on my nerves a bit by repeatedly insisting on your narrow definition, which btw appears to be plain WRONG .

Back to Su-47!

Cheers,
Henrik
oh so its ok that you step on mine by referring to the foreplane as a canard.

your definition is absolutely incorrect mate. the article you quote clearly states that "canard" refers to a configuration. So i beg to differ about your claim that i am wrong. I used to refer to it also as a canard but was chastised by a BAE Aerospace engineer as i too was "stepping on his nerves" by doing so. Now you can take offence to my request- which is for clarification as personally i was trying to work out what the "canard up" really was (was it elevator and foreplane in up position?). So you can see the need for clarification.

you've cleverly ommitted the article as verbatim also to try to push your point and make me look foolish.

close coupled canard configurations- such as those found in jets are described as : (from your reference)

the foreplane is but one of the canard surfaces. it is not the canard.

Close-coupled canard

In the close-coupled canard, the foreplane is located just above and forward of the main wing. At high angles of attack the canard surface directs airflow downwards over the wing, reducing turbulence which results in reduced drag and increased lift.[10]

The canard foreplane may be fixed as on the IAI Kfir, or have landing flaps as on the Saab Viggen, or it may be moveable and also act as a control-canard during normal flight as on the Dassault Rafale.


so rather than be a jerk about it, why not use the right terminology instead of getting all moody- so we can all understand what people are talking about?...or at least define your interpretation of the situation?

so to ask your question again- is the foreplane the only part of the canard config that needs to be in the up position?
what_the?! is offline Find More Posts by what_the?!
Reply With Quote
Old Apr 20, 2010, 09:11 PM
Registered User
Mtn_Commando's Avatar
United States, CA, Dublin
Joined Sep 2008
1,007 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by f4addict View Post
So are you planning to set the cg behind the one given by factory?
absolutely. everyone that has flown this bird so far has reported that the factory stated CoG (2cm) leaves it nose heavy. I'll be going for 3.5cm. better tail heavy on a jet than nose heavy, any day.
Mtn_Commando is offline Find More Posts by Mtn_Commando
Reply With Quote
Old Apr 20, 2010, 09:37 PM
Fly, Crash, Burn,
f4addict's Avatar
United States, CT, Danbury
Joined Jul 2008
667 Posts
oh ok, well, i learnt something new today. i am going to wait for retracts from ''what_the?'' so by that time if you get your maiden in, let us know so we can set cg over to same one and try to fly.
f4addict is offline Find More Posts by f4addict
Reply With Quote
Old Apr 21, 2010, 02:39 AM
Registered User
Baca's Avatar
Melbourne , Australia
Joined Jun 2006
330 Posts
what the?! check your PM .
Andrew
Baca is offline Find More Posts by Baca
Reply With Quote
Old Apr 23, 2010, 07:27 PM
Registered User
San Diego
Joined Jul 2002
26 Posts
Completed assembly of my BH SU47. Made the following mods, some of which are based on info learned here, thank you:

- Added a 1/16" thick by 1/4" wide carbon fiber strip to each wing to stiffen. The 1/4" direction is vertical. They are mounted in the wings bottom sides along an existing panel line and run into the main fuse section.

- Removed play in linkage (especially the long ones running through bellcranks) caused by Z bends being too wide. I added heat shrink to the pushrods to keep horn or arm from sliding back and forth. I also trimmed the bellcrank shafts to remove play.

- Removed blinking multi-colored Christmas-ornament-like landing light and replaced with non-blinking super-bright white LED.

- Moved CG back from recommended 20mm position to 30mm. The recommended battery is a 3600 6S. I purchased a new Thunder Power Pro-Lite 3900 6S that weighs 2 ounces "less" than a Turnigy or Rhino, etc 3600 battery. Yes, the TP cost more, but it is a perfect fit into the battery compartment in back of cockpit area with no cutting needed and the lower weight helped get the CG back. Therefore the added cost lowered the overall weight and added 300mAH.

All I need to do is solder the battery connectors and it is ready to maiden.

But I have a large scale model that I need money to finish so will sell the SU47 before flying. What are best classifieds to advertise in, in addition to RC Groups? I am in San Diego so southern California area is best as shipping would be major.
Harvey Mushman is offline Find More Posts by Harvey Mushman
Reply With Quote
Old Apr 25, 2010, 02:02 PM
Registered User
hklagges's Avatar
Munich
Joined Dec 2008
1,145 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by what_the?! View Post
oh so its ok that you step on mine by referring to the foreplane as a canard.
Sure it is ok to step on yours, because you lectured us twice before .

Quote:
the article you quote clearly states that "canard" refers to a configuration.
And it titulates the "foreplanes" as "canards" or "canard wings" often. Good enough for me.

Quote:
you've cleverly ommitted the article as verbatim also to try to push your point and make me look foolish.
"Ommitted as verbatim"? Of course I didn't include the whole article, that is what the wikipedia link I gave is for, and I gave sufficiently many text parts that make it plausible (at least for me) that it is ok to call the foreplane of a canard configuration a canard.

Quote:
At high angles of attack the canard surface directs airflow downwards over the wing,
You requote this. So I rerequote it. "the canard surface directs airflow over the wing". That means the canard surface is NOT the wing but the foreplane, in that sentence. They use the words "foreplane" and "canard surface" interchangingly to mean the same thing. That was my whole point.


Quote:
so to ask your question again- is the foreplane the only part of the canard config that needs to be in the up position?
I answered that question already before your post, here it is again. I had to trim the canard with the leading edge up, i.e. a positive angle of attack, generating lift upwards. So YOUR foreplane and MY canard had its leading edge up.

Of course you can have the same effect by pointing the leading edge of the elevators down or by a mixture of the two.

Cheers,
Henrik
hklagges is offline Find More Posts by hklagges
Reply With Quote
Old Apr 25, 2010, 02:14 PM
Registered User
Mtn_Commando's Avatar
United States, CA, Dublin
Joined Sep 2008
1,007 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harvey Mushman View Post
Completed assembly of my BH SU47. Made the following mods, some of which are based on info learned here, thank you:

- Added a 1/16" thick by 1/4" wide carbon fiber strip to each wing to stiffen. The 1/4" direction is vertical. They are mounted in the wings bottom sides along an existing panel line and run into the main fuse section.

- Removed play in linkage (especially the long ones running through bellcranks) caused by Z bends being too wide. I added heat shrink to the pushrods to keep horn or arm from sliding back and forth. I also trimmed the bellcrank shafts to remove play.

- Removed blinking multi-colored Christmas-ornament-like landing light and replaced with non-blinking super-bright white LED.

- Moved CG back from recommended 20mm position to 30mm. The recommended battery is a 3600 6S. I purchased a new Thunder Power Pro-Lite 3900 6S that weighs 2 ounces "less" than a Turnigy or Rhino, etc 3600 battery. Yes, the TP cost more, but it is a perfect fit into the battery compartment in back of cockpit area with no cutting needed and the lower weight helped get the CG back. Therefore the added cost lowered the overall weight and added 300mAH.

All I need to do is solder the battery connectors and it is ready to maiden.

But I have a large scale model that I need money to finish so will sell the SU47 before flying. What are best classifieds to advertise in, in addition to RC Groups? I am in San Diego so southern California area is best as shipping would be major.
good job. too bad you're selling it. i would suggest advertising on rcgroups, rcuniverse, and craigslist (I'm assuming it will be local pickup only?). how much are you going to list it for?
Mtn_Commando is offline Find More Posts by Mtn_Commando
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Category Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
New Product FreeWing 70mm F-35 w/ Thrust Vectoring bhatch21 Foamy EDFs 1411 Sep 30, 2014 10:48 AM
Discussion F-22 Raptor thrust vectoring scratch built twin ducted fan jet MikeysRC Foamies (Scratchbuilt) 2 Aug 05, 2009 11:29 AM
Discussion SU-35 or any twin EDF with thrust vectoring dash8pilot Electric Ducted Fan Jet Talk 11 Jul 21, 2008 07:32 AM
Discussion Wicked thrust vectoring twin turbine mig-29 video lavochkin Foamy EDFs 5 Jun 12, 2008 12:07 PM
Build Log Mig-35 Twin EDF w/ Thrust Vectoring tailslide5_0 Foamy EDFs 23 Aug 27, 2007 09:20 PM