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Old Aug 16, 2009, 04:15 AM
SRB Quark, CB100, V911, Hub X4
London, UK
Joined Feb 2009
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Discussion
New 2009 Walkera CB180 (D & Q) FP 4CH stable coax killer helicopter - Main thread

Has Walkera got a Quark killer, and a super stable FP single rotor heli?
Are coaxial RC helicopters now obsolete?

There have been several threads talking about the new Walkera CB180D (pod and boom) and CB180Q (airwolf fuselage) helicopter, and I thought it was time to start an "official" one (i.e. a single thread dedicated to the heli, and irrespective of suppliers).




===== Specification =======

* FP (single rotor helicopter)
* 45 Degree Flybar, with heavy stabilisers
* Metal CNC head
* Tail Rotor Diameter: 94 mm
* Main Rotor Diameter: 440 mm
* Overall Length: 460 mm
* Receiver: RX-2423
* Gyro: Built-in
* Battery: 7.4V 1000mAh Li-Po, expected to offer 10 to 12 min flight time.
* Transmitter: WK-2401, or others
* Tail Motor: 1225FE33 (brushed)
* Drive Motor: 370SH (brushed)
* All-up Weight: 288g (Battery included)

See full specification from Walkera for the CB180D and CB180Q

===== Pricing ====

* CB180D and CB180Q are the same price
* Around $145 USD including shipping to the US for model with 2401 Tx. $152 shipped to Europe
* Spare battery: around $16 - $18

===== Initial Considerations =======

* New 45 degree stabiliser makes heli much more stable
* Initial reviews would indicate that the helicopter is as stable as coax (dual main rotor) ones
* Brushed motors mean replacement every 50 flights or less. An aftermarket brushless mod would probably come soon.
* Weight is the same between the two versions (with or without fuselage). The weight of the landing for the B is probably the same as the fuselage for the Q
* Tail shaft and gear look very similar to the ones on the Hirobo Quark
* Models sold barebone (no transmitter) or with various Walkera transmitters
* If you already have an 2.4Ghz TX from Walkera, you will probably be able to use it. 2401 and 2402 TX work fine. Works best with 2801 in 2801 mode.
* Differences/similarities with the Hirobo SRB Quark (known to be one of the most stable FP heli): CB180 is slighly bigger. Quark is still not 2.4Ghz. Both have 45 degree self stabilizing flybar/head design and similar shaft tail. Quark has main brushless motor. CB180 has heatsink on tail motor. Price! ($340 vs. $140). Quark not available with a fuselage. Quark uses bespoke expensive batteries. Quark difficult to mod/upgrade. Quark uses foam blades
* Balance charger for 2 and 3 cells provided.
* The lipo battery is the same as the 1#B, but the connector is different on the 1#B (not a standard JST)

===== Initial Reviews ======

* See the initial review done on pre-production model by RCHobbyHelicopter.Com (see this thread )
* See the mini ehirobo review

===== Videos ======

(I love the noise the rotor makes on that helicopter!)
Walkera CB-180Q Hybrid Airwolf Fixed Pitch RC Helicopter (1 min 35 sec)


RC711.com - Indoor Test Fly For Walkera CB180Q 2.4G Metal Edition (1 min 5 sec)


RCHHCB180DVideo1 (5 min 1 sec)


RCHH CB180D Video (1 min 59 sec)

===== Pictures =====
























See some detailled pictures of the components without the canopy.

===== Availability / Sellers =======

* First production run started by Walkera on 14th August 2009
* Some resellers already have the Q version available (as per the 15th August)
* Both versions to be available to most resellers by end of August

Some of the early resellers (I won't keep updating):

* RCHobbyHelicopter.Com, USA
* Chinese Jade (Terence) , HK
* BestHobbySite / ehirobo
* RC11.com
* XHeli
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Last edited by sebtomato; Aug 25, 2009 at 04:45 AM. Reason: Changed "official" thread to "main thread"
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Old Aug 16, 2009, 05:09 AM
SRB Quark, CB100, V911, Hub X4
London, UK
Joined Feb 2009
461 Posts
So is it a Quark killer? Is it as stable as it looks? Are coax helicopters now obsolete?

Please post your reviews here.
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Old Aug 16, 2009, 05:33 AM
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Hilton (Rochester), NY
Joined Mar 2008
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The very last picture you show is what worries me. I think this might work better as a direct drive tail and not as a shaft drive, especially if it's all plastic. Anybody with a mechanical background will cringe at that set up. When we discussed this briefly in the Honey Bee Fixed Pitch thread, one of the contributors says the shaft drive has been tried before and failed - by Walkera. Actually, all of these heli's coming out now will be perfect timing. By Christmas, we'll know what works and what doesn't. You can be the guinea pig. You already have the Quark, you'll need to buy one and tell us about it.
I'm surprised that John has undercut the HK competition on his pricing.
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Old Aug 16, 2009, 06:12 AM
Honey,just one more thing
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Rensselaer,IN
Joined Jan 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sebtomato
So is it a Quark killer? Is it as stable as it looks? Are coax helicopters now obsolete?

Please post your reviews here.
Before we can call it a quark killer, it has to be crashed a few times and see if it still flies, I might have to replace my blades with out no other damage, and she gets up and flies again. I'm tempted to get one anyhow, cheap enough. Bud
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Old Aug 16, 2009, 06:19 AM
SRB Quark, CB100, V911, Hub X4
London, UK
Joined Feb 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kodak_jack
You can be the guinea pig. You already have the Quark, you'll need to buy one and tell us about it.
I'm surprised that John has undercut the HK competition on his pricing.
I have ordered one, so I should be able to compare in about a week's time.

I don't think John will be competitive from buyers outside of the US, if we include delivery charges and taxes. From the UK, it is cheaper for me to order from HK, and the risk of having to pay the various taxes much reduced from HK than from the US, since parcels are not monitored the same way, for some reasons. Delivery time would be the same from HK or the US (5 to 7 days).
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Old Aug 16, 2009, 06:23 AM
SRB Quark, CB100, V911, Hub X4
London, UK
Joined Feb 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spudandretti
Before we can call it a quark killer, it has to be crashed a few times and see if it still flies
I was just being controversial to raise interest and trigger some debates! It's difficult to know right now, but the few videos are showing it's stable when hovering.

It's also very cheap, compared to a Quark that many people just can't afford. The Quark parts are ridiculously expensive, and let's not talk about the batteries.

Competition from Walkera is good for us. It will kick Hirobo to make improvements, such as moving to 2.4Ghz and readjust their prices (while designed in Japan, many parts are not made there), or come with something innovative again (easy to fly CP?), and have a free run for a year, before the Chinese catch on.
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Last edited by sebtomato; Aug 16, 2009 at 06:30 AM.
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Old Aug 16, 2009, 06:35 AM
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Joined Jun 2008
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Well I ordered mine on Friday, so should come by next weekend. I can fly my 4#3b quite well, but i'm getting rid of the 4g3's too much like hard work setting everything up, for one crash, and everything going to pot again! My Creata's fun but a little too large for the back garden, so this should be great!
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Old Aug 16, 2009, 06:40 AM
SRB Quark, CB100, V911, Hub X4
London, UK
Joined Feb 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fishfiend
Well I ordered mine on Friday, so should come by next weekend.
Where did you order it from? Which model did you choose? Which TX?
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Old Aug 16, 2009, 06:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sebtomato
Where did you order it from? Which model did you choose? Which TX?
Just ordered it from Terence, barebone, I think i've got 2x 2401's and a 2601 that I don't use, so I don't want anymore, besides the tx2801 works fine with all my models, I've even got a bullet 250 coming that i'm planning to install with an rx2801. Now the wait begins......Oh by the way I'm from London myself!
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Old Aug 16, 2009, 07:05 AM
Honey,just one more thing
spudandretti's Avatar
Rensselaer,IN
Joined Jan 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sebtomato
I was just being controversial to raise interest and trigger some debates! It's difficult to know right now, but the few videos are showing it's stable when hovering.

It's also very cheap, compared to a Quark that many people just can't afford. The Quark parts are ridiculously expensive, and let's not talk about the batteries.

Competition from Walkera is good for us. It will kick Hirobo to make improvements, such as moving to 2.4Ghz and readjust their prices (while designed in Japan, many parts are not made there), or come with something innovative again (easy to fly CP?), and have a free run for a year, before the Chinese catch on.
No, I understand. Like I said, lets see what needs to be replaced in a crash, might be as sturdy or you might have some down time replacing numorous items every time, I don't know, I haven't had a major crash with the Quark, so it might be the same. Just curious on how well the gyro works too. I will probably get one anyhow, its new . Bud
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Old Aug 16, 2009, 07:14 AM
SRB Quark, CB100, V911, Hub X4
London, UK
Joined Feb 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spudandretti
No, I understand. Like I said, lets see what needs to be replaced in a crash, might be as sturdy or you might have some down time replacing numorous items every time,
Clearly, Walkera's approach is the opposite of Hirobo's. On the Quark, the foam blades and plastic stabiliser are supposed to absorb some of the energy from a crash. Everything is metal and the fly bar is bolted on the Walkera, so nothing to come off in case of a crash.

I personally think that the blades on the Quark are too fragile, and most people end-up laminating them with tape, with the same effect on shock absorption.

I have struggled in the past to repair my small Lama2 from Walkera, due to the tiny components and soft screws. I hope the larger scale of the SB180 will make it easier to repair, and the spares from Walkera should be very cheap.

I am sure some people are going to start comparing the "full lifecycle" cost of a Quark (with its brushless motor) vs. the CB180, but the cost difference ($200!) would pay for an awful lot of brushed replacement motors.
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Old Aug 16, 2009, 07:24 AM
SRB Quark, CB100, V911, Hub X4
London, UK
Joined Feb 2009
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This is IMHO what the Quark does not have/drawbacks, and what the Cb180 MAY have (on paper):

* foam blades way too fragile and $2 each -> plastic blades
* everything made difficult to use aftermarket batteries -> standard JST
* single pod canopy -> choice, with some nice fuselage
* brushed tail motor can heat up -> standard heatsink
* very expensive spares -> cheap spares
* can't buy new control unit -> available
* still ancient radio system (72mhz etc), high battery drain, some interference -> 2.4ghz, smaller aerial, better range, less battery drain etc
* no modding -> greater user base (cheaper heli) could mean more modding options
* cheap plastic TX provided -> default looks and feel more proper
* tail shaft noise reported (see Quark thread) -> different design, two bearings?
* exposed tail blade (particularly on landing) -> protection
* very high price -> very reasonable price
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Last edited by sebtomato; Aug 16, 2009 at 07:29 AM.
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Old Aug 16, 2009, 02:01 PM
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Im so excited for this heli. I think I may order from Terence tonight, and then get spares from john when they are available.
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Old Aug 16, 2009, 02:51 PM
SRB Quark, CB100, V911, Hub X4
London, UK
Joined Feb 2009
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Looks like Best Hooby Site will soon have those in stock, and will sell for $110 + delivery ($40 to Europe), so $150 for the full model with TX.
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Old Aug 16, 2009, 08:42 PM
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Germantown, WI.
Joined Oct 2007
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I'm hopeful this will be a good heli that has some room to add some extra punch. That's the one thing I find lacking in the Quark. But, I've owned 7 Walkera helis (still have 2) and I've yet to own one that wasn't a major disappointment.

Notice the bevel cut gears in the tail. Quark owners may recall I said that was one thing that would reduce the resonance in the Quark tail. The second bearing is the other. Walkera has got smarter engineers than I thought they did.
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