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Old Nov 29, 2012, 05:59 AM
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Brighton UK
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Originally Posted by 5th View Post
This looks as good a place as any to ask...

I have a new 8FG Super. Is there a way to reverse a channel with a switch, while in flight?

As far as I can tell channels can only be reversed in the menus. I know it's unlikely that this is possible but I found what I think is a legit application for it (as well as the ability to 'rebind' sticks to different channels on the fly) so I can't stop thinking about it.
There is no built-in provision made for this though it is possible by means of mixing. May I ask what is your "legitimate application"?

In glider mode it is possible to assign different controls to the same channel and select them in flight by means of condition switching. However this is limited to certain functions.
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Old Nov 29, 2012, 07:00 AM
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5th,

I don't yet own an 8fg, but it's certainly possible on a 9C, you just mix your input control, say ailerons to an auxillary channel say, ch8 which is nulled for control knob input. Choose a switch to control the mix and set it up for +100% both ways then set up another mix from ailerons to ch8 which is -100% both ways on the same switch as before but with the switch in the opposite sense then take your output from the aux (ch8) from the Rx.
Now I appreciate that the philosophy of functions not channels on the newer Futaba radios is now the norm but it must be possible to achieve the same effect.

A.
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Old Nov 29, 2012, 06:41 PM
5th
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Originally Posted by MalcolmHolt View Post
May I ask what is your "legitimate application"?
Well, see, that's why I worded it as "what I think is a legit application". If I could reverse pitch and roll and swap them as well, I could arbitrarily pick which side is the "front" of my quadcopter. Even better would be to mix them such that I could also switch between X and + mode on the fly. I have ideas for acro maneuvers that could take advantage of changing which side is "forward" on the fly.

Obviously I could just teach myself to fly in arbitrary directions, but it's getting expensive as I break arms and props and fill brushless outrunners full of dirt every time I practice doing so. I can fly nose-in, etc. but when I try to transition to reverse flight with banking it all goes wrong. I think it's because when I fly nose-in I'm mentally changing my perspective, not my concept of forward. It doesn't matter which way I point my quad, if I try to fly in the tail direction too fast or while banking I get into trouble. I would probably never be able to fly a heli in true 3-D as a result.

See? Legit is relative I guess. My definition of legit is "would actually use it".

Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyOne View Post
you just mix your input control, say ailerons to an auxillary channel say, ch8 which is nulled for control knob input. Choose a switch to control the mix and set it up for +100% both ways then set up another mix from ailerons to ch8 which is -100% both ways on the same switch as before but with the switch in the opposite sense then take your output from the aux (ch8) from the Rx.
Now I appreciate that the philosophy of functions not channels on the newer Futaba radios is now the norm but it must be possible to achieve the same effect.

A.
You are probably pointing me in the right direction, but the manual for this thing still makes my head explode. It would help if it was written more like a manual and less like an API reference. I'll keep working on it. Thanks.
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Old Nov 30, 2012, 02:00 AM
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Originally Posted by 5th View Post
Well, see, that's why I worded it as "what I think is a legit application". If I could reverse pitch and roll and swap them as well, I could arbitrarily pick which side is the "front" of my quadcopter. Even better would be to mix them such that I could also switch between X and + mode on the fly. I have ideas for acro maneuvers that could take advantage of changing which side is "forward" on the fly.

Obviously I could just teach myself to fly in arbitrary directions, but it's getting expensive as I break arms and props and fill brushless outrunners full of dirt every time I practice doing so. I can fly nose-in, etc. but when I try to transition to reverse flight with banking it all goes wrong. I think it's because when I fly nose-in I'm mentally changing my perspective, not my concept of forward. It doesn't matter which way I point my quad, if I try to fly in the tail direction too fast or while banking I get into trouble. I would probably never be able to fly a heli in true 3-D as a result.

See? Legit is relative I guess. My definition of legit is "would actually use it".



You are probably pointing me in the right direction, but the manual for this thing still makes my head explode. It would help if it was written more like a manual and less like an API reference. I'll keep working on it. Thanks.
I think your idea of switching between a + and x configuration is definitely legit. However, trying to make a switch so that you don't get the normal reversal of pitch and roll when it's pointing away/toward you is not really going to be worth it. Imagine if you were hovering facing away from you. Roll and pitch are normal. Then you translate forward and attempt to fly a circle. When exactly do you flip that switch to reverse pitch/roll? There will be many gray areas where it's facing sideways to you and every other angle in between and you'll find that the task of learning when to hit the roll/pitch reverse switch would be just as difficult or more difficult as learning to deal with the reversal naturally without a switch.

I'm an airplane guy with a little bit of heli experience (if just a Blade mcpx counts), and one of the first things you have to learn with an airplane is the reversal of the roll axis when the plane is flying toward you. Again, maybe you could setup a switch to reverse the roll when it's flying toward you, but what about all of the other orientations where it's kind of between flying directly away or toward you? I'm telling you, it would be significantly easier to just learn with practice the reversal of the roll axis. It would actually be less trouble to learn this than to learn to manage when to switch the axis.
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Old Nov 30, 2012, 02:07 AM
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Originally Posted by 5th View Post
Well, see, that's why I worded it as "what I think is a legit application". If I could reverse pitch and roll and swap them as well, I could arbitrarily pick which side is the "front" of my quadcopter. Even better would be to mix them such that I could also switch between X and + mode on the fly. I have ideas for acro maneuvers that could take advantage of changing which side is "forward" on the fly.

Obviously I could just teach myself to fly in arbitrary directions, but it's getting expensive as I break arms and props and fill brushless outrunners full of dirt every time I practice doing so. I can fly nose-in, etc. but when I try to transition to reverse flight with banking it all goes wrong. I think it's because when I fly nose-in I'm mentally changing my perspective, not my concept of forward. It doesn't matter which way I point my quad, if I try to fly in the tail direction too fast or while banking I get into trouble. I would probably never be able to fly a heli in true 3-D as a result.

See? Legit is relative I guess. My definition of legit is "would actually use it".



You are probably pointing me in the right direction, but the manual for this thing still makes my head explode. It would help if it was written more like a manual and less like an API reference. I'll keep working on it. Thanks.
And if you are frequently ditching your copter learning this and doing damage, can you attach some kind of trainer landing gear that would prevent the chassis and blades from hitting the ground is most cases? When guys learn regular helicopters, they put trainer gear on them which is basically two long dowells in an X configuration with wiffle balls on the ends. They attach this to the landing skids and the trainer gear are nearly the diameter of the rotor blades. So if you are near the ground and push the stick the wrong way and need to just get it down, it will survive a good hit much better with the trainer gear as they might prevent the rotors from striking the ground. You could probably attach a standard set of helicopter trainer gear right to your multicopter I bet. Make sure the 'diameter' of the trainer gear is as wide or wider than the blade arcs so the gear will strike the ground first in most situations.
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Old Nov 30, 2012, 05:16 AM
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You could use a sim. Don't they have quads on a sim? Flying inverted was the thing that cost me the most with a heli. After spending $1200 in parts one week l decided the sim was a better way to learn. It saved me my marriage.
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Old Nov 30, 2012, 05:33 AM
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5th

Neil_SCís comments explain my cautious approach to your original question. I have often been asked how to programme a switched reversal of the elevator stick to aid inverted flying on fixed wing aircraft and have always refused. In the long run it is not helpful to the learning process and, in my opinion, is positively dangerous. I have no experience of quadcopters but suspect that the same principles apply.

I share your views on the dreadful manual and am normally more than willing to help others with programming problems. On this occasion I donít think it is appropriate. Sorry.

I also struggled at first and wrote myself a set of notes through a process of trial and error. If you havenít come across them they have been widely reproduced on-line. Google Futaba 8FG Supplementary Notes. They have their limitations but may be of some use if you are new to the 8FG.
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Old Nov 30, 2012, 07:45 AM
I never finish anyth
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Originally Posted by MCrites View Post
Ok, I have given on on making my DJI Naza Flight Controller with with just one receiver. Basically the Naza uses channels 1-8 on the SBUS and cannot be reprogrammed so I cannot use the traditional channels on my RX. So now I need a second receiver, probably no more than 4 channels (2 right now, 2 more to be safe). RX recommendations? Will something FASST compatible from Fr Sky work? Should I just go with a small Futaba RX? What do I need to know in order to get a new RX working with my existing R6208SB? I am no TX expert so I want to make sure all of my ducks are in a row before I send them across the busy street
Ideas?
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Old Nov 30, 2012, 11:48 AM
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Dallas, TX
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Originally Posted by MCrites View Post
Ideas?
Would this solve your problem:

http://www.modellhobby.de/Electronic...&c=8468&p=8468

It has the option to switch the physical ports from 1-8 to 9-16

Not sure which other Futaba receivers can do that other than the 7008SB
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Old Nov 30, 2012, 01:56 PM
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Joined Nov 2009
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Malcolm, just discovered your notes which I will dutifully decipher...
You are a hero and hopefully been awarded by Futaba or RCGroup (or the Queen...) the rank of Ambassador or higher

Well done and thanx for your help!
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Old Nov 30, 2012, 02:17 PM
5th
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Neil_SC and MalcolmHolt: If it were just about flying nose-in I would agree. I fly nose-in and all other orientations fine as-is. As long as I fly in the direction of the front of the craft. What I am talking about is the equivalent of flying a heli tail-first in a high-speed figure-8.

You might argue that I should either learn to fly that way manually or not bother. I counter that this is like insisting that instead of using a GPS when I move to a new city I should just learn the layout of the city in advance so I don't need the GPS. It's is a valid approach, but it's hardly reasonable to insist that everyone take that route.

Or, given your stance, why would you use condition switching for your glider? Shouldn't you be making those changes manually? What about IOC, RTL, attitude hold, altitude hold, and other flight modes that are common on the advanced flight controllers? Should I eschew these conveniences in favor of just achieving these outcomes manually? Am I cheating if I fly FPV and use a tracker to point my directional antenna?

I don't want to pick a fight or argue. None of the above was written to be read in a shrill or confrontational voice. I thought maybe this was a good place to ask an 8FGS configuration question that has me stymied. I didn't expect to have to defend my question to this degree. I'll keep looking for the solution on my own I guess. I'll re-read your supplementary notes, Malcolm - thank you .

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Old Nov 30, 2012, 04:56 PM
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Originally Posted by 5th View Post
What I am talking about is the equivalent of flying a heli tail-first in a high-speed figure-8.
Most decent control boards for a multi-rotor craft include IOC or similar which already does exactly what you want in a far more elegant manner than changing tx behavior.
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Old Nov 30, 2012, 05:04 PM
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Discouraging information in the published 14SG manual Looks like flight conditions are still missing from normal airplane mode. Has anyone heard of them adding this capability in the first software upgrade?

-Steve
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Old Nov 30, 2012, 05:17 PM
5th
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Originally Posted by Telrin View Post
Most decent control boards for a multi-rotor craft include IOC or similar which already does exactly what you want in a far more elegant manner than changing tx behavior.
I have a KK2.

And IOC is the inverse of what I want. I don't want to constrain the flight path without constraining orientation like the Naza's course lock or home lock do. I want to be able to maintain an orientation (though not necessarily lock it) without constraining flight path. Neither form of IOC in the Naza allows me to designate a new "front of craft" on the fly.

Maybe I should break down and learn the ins and outs of the MPNG code so that I can modify it to give me what I want. I am a programmer. But since I want to enjoy my quad and not turn it into a chore, it would be nice if I could achieve my goal with what I already own...
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Old Nov 30, 2012, 05:17 PM
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Originally Posted by chimchim View Post
Discouraging information in the published 14SG manual Looks like flight conditions are still missing from normal airplane mode. Has anyone heard of them adding this capability in the first software upgrade?
No, it seems likely that this is not going to be a feature of the 14SG any more than it was a feature of the 8FG before it.

I'd look to a more expensive Futaba radio for this as they seem to feel it is something reserved for higher-end radios.
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