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Old Feb 13, 2012, 10:41 AM
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pilotpete2's Avatar
The Northeast Kingdom, Vermont
Joined Jun 2004
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I agree, but I think a warning screen is in order before the data is reset would be a good idea. I do find it a bit hard to accept that if I were to convert an existing model with a single aileron servo to a two servo setup that all the other settings need to be reset. If you could assign AIL2 from the FUNCTION screen, then no issue, but you can't, since AIL2 doesn't exist until you change the the wing type to 2AIL. Sure you can have two AIL(1) channels by using the FUNCTION screen, but no aileron differential without the wing type change.
What, the DX8 is the worlds most advanced 8 channels radio! Everybody knows that. Well, until you want to reassign the AIL2 channel from CH6 to CH5 to fly a 5 servo CUB with an AR500 receiver. OK, you can do it by using a mix, but man that hard wired channel/function thing is sooo 20th Century
Pete
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Old Feb 13, 2012, 10:47 AM
どうもありがとうミスターロボット
Wrend's Avatar
United States, IL
Joined Jul 2009
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Yes, ideally I'd like to see all the functions available in the function menu for gliders, planes, or helis too. Then the model type menu would be even more for just initial model setup when you want it to load default settings for that kind of a model.

But then you have the different mixes, both internally and user defined, to worry about. I can see why loading more specific model templates with different functions and mixes is easier. And, it isn't like models grow an extra channel too often.
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Old Feb 13, 2012, 11:10 AM
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The Northeast Kingdom, Vermont
Joined Jun 2004
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I couldn't agree more. Adding a choice of motor or throttle to the setup template would be a very good idea, in fact I believe that it is be considered for a future update. Now, when are we going to get S-FHSS support on the 8FG
I also will ask that question, but probably will get the "well, if we were to tell you, we'd have to kill you" line
Pete
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Old Feb 13, 2012, 12:12 PM
myp
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Joined Oct 2007
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yep, adding an option to reverse motor stick direction to the system menu/set up template is a good way to let folks keep their current setting if they wish and to let other folks reverse it once and for all.

However, I do not agree with the arguments the 8FG is fine safety-wise as one should 1) remove the prop or 2) connect a battery to the receiver to test function, etc. in order to avoid being surprised. Yes, they are all safety precautions that we should always follow, no argument on that. However, it is a safety issue that Futaba, as a responsible company, can address. There is no harm in making the transmitter even safer for the lapse in judgement we sometimes have.

As an analogy, remember the days when you can shift the gear in your car from Park to Reverse/Drive without having to step on brake? We have all been taught to step on the brake first as a safety precaution. Should that excuse automakers from not making it safer by not allowing us to shift if we do not step on the brake first? Unfortunately, it took many injuries and lawsuits against Audi (and probably other automakers) before all automakers do that.
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Old Feb 13, 2012, 12:43 PM
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Miramar, FL
Joined Aug 2008
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So let me tell you an interesting story just to prove that no matter how foolproof you think a system is things can always go wrong. I have only had a issue with reversing sending a throttle to full during programming once in my life. I had been asked by a club member to maiden their brand new plane that hey had just assembled last night. As expected I went through a did a thorough pre-flight check to ensure everything was right, how they had stuff such as rate and retracts set up, etc; this was done with the plane ready to go and the flight battery plugged in. It turns out that during the pre-flight check I noticed that the ailerons were reversed (if I had a nickle for every time that has happened).

The radio was a Spektrum DX6 (or something like that) with one of those rotating cylinder controls that you press to access stuff. Never really liked them before and like them much less now. Anyway, found the reversing screen, highlighted ailerons and pressed the cylinder... Now the cylinder on this particular radio spun very freely and pressed very difficultly so you can imagine what happened, the cylinder spun - pressed - spun when my intention was to just to press the cylinder. The cursor moved to throttle, activated throttle, reversed throttle.

Fortunately for everyone involved there was no damage to either person or property (except for possible a severe bruise to my ego) but it gave all of us a huge scare when the plane suddenly pulled off the table and fell to the ground.

The moral of the story is no matter what you are doing and how improbable it seems that something may go wrong you should take the necessary safety precautions. Yes, I admit that I was lazy and did not un-plug the flight battery before going into radio programming and that I should have done it, it was my fault, but the good thing is that I definitely learned from my experience.

- Birger

P.S. even with this experience I would never go out and tell people that any radio with one of these push cylinder programming interfaces is a loaded gun though I have lived the experience personally but then again I don't consider the 8FG a loaded gun either, not by any stretch of the imagination.
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Last edited by bdelapen; Feb 13, 2012 at 12:44 PM. Reason: Didn't mean to include the quote as the comment is global, not directed.
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Old Feb 13, 2012, 12:55 PM
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ivanc's Avatar
United States, TX, Round Rock
Joined Dec 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vespa View Post
I treat the motor like a weapon and am highly conscious of it's armed status at all times, but I've used Futaba radios with electric aircraft for 30 years -- I know how this stuff works. I reverse CH3 and protect the throttle stick and there's no problem. I'm not going to stick my face up to the prop but I know models, I know electrics, and I know Futaba, so I feel perfectly comfortable simply pointing the armed model away from me while adjusting minor things like v-tail mixers. Unfortunately, the 8FG throws all that out the window and might just delete my model and go full throttle at any moment. It's really a terrible thing they have done here.

Of course powerful models are a different story, no one messes with anything when these are armed. But for the average park flier I expect that the majority of us make changes to the mixers with the motor armed. Why wouldn't we? What possible connection could there be between the aileron mixer and the throttle? Note also that a great number of modelers don't even own an RX battery and many aircraft lack easy access to the RX and/or motor wires.
If you were to fly glow/gas aircraft, would you start the engine with the plane unrestrained and then start making changes such as adding/modifying/removing flaps, V-tail, elevon, ailvator, flaperon, etc. mixes? A battery plugged into an ESC with the motor connected to the ESC is equivalent to motor running - as it can start at ANY time, for whatever reason. If your aircraft do not use a separate flight pack or BEC, the motor wires are not easily accessible AND for whatever reason you are not willing to remove the prop/blades and you still want to do major changes (such as those I mentioned above) to the aircraft setup, do yourself the favor to at least restrain the aircraft so it won't accidentally move (a bit tough to do with a large heli but still doable).
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Old Feb 13, 2012, 01:01 PM
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vespa's Avatar
Thousand Oaks, CA
Joined Mar 2004
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The perfect example is a common foamie park flyer with ailerons on a Y-cable. One day you decide it'd be fun to setup flaps so you pull out the Y, connect the second aileron to the RX, power everything up (arming the motor) and then make the very tiny minor mixing change from 1 Ail to 2 Ail. And BAM!! It goes flying across your shop at full throttle.

This is not a "major configuration change" and no one in their right mind would "make an eneloop" battery just for this purpose. Many park flyers do not have disconnectable motors, and few people would remove the prop for such a minor change.

So we're left with two possible scenarios:
a. The plane is powered when the change is made and thus flies wildly across the shop, destroyed as it hits the wall.
b. The plane is not powered and the owner realizes that the stupid radio just deleted his entire model setup. Then the radio flies wildly across the shop, destroyed as it hits the wall.
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Old Feb 13, 2012, 01:19 PM
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pilotpete2's Avatar
The Northeast Kingdom, Vermont
Joined Jun 2004
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A good example of an incorrect initial setup
I have never understood why anyone would even consider using a "Y" on a 2 aileron servo model when using a radio in the class. I avoid them like the plague.
Adding the camber control (flaperon) to the dual ailerons is not done in the wing type at all, as far as I can see. So if the model was setup correctly in the first place, with 2 ailerons servo wing type for a two aileron airplane model, no issue. Just saying
The value of aileron differential in small foamies, particularly ones without rudder, like my L-39 Albatross benefit from aileron differential.
Pete
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Old Feb 13, 2012, 01:26 PM
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USA, CA, Aromas
Joined Sep 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vespa View Post
The perfect example is a common foamie park flyer with ailerons on a Y-cable. One day you decide it'd be fun to setup flaps so you pull out the Y, connect the second aileron to the RX, power everything up (arming the motor) and then make the very tiny minor mixing change from 1 Ail to 2 Ail. And BAM!! It goes flying across your shop at full throttle.

This is not a "major configuration change" and no one in their right mind would "make an eneloop" battery just for this purpose. Many park flyers do not have disconnectable motors, and few people would remove the prop for such a minor change.

So we're left with two possible scenarios:
a. The plane is powered when the change is made and thus flies wildly across the shop, destroyed as it hits the wall.
b. The plane is not powered and the owner realizes that the stupid radio just deleted his entire model setup. Then the radio flies wildly across the shop, destroyed as it hits the wall.

actually in that case I would just go to the funtion menu and add an aileron function to an open channel and walla!!! dont change model types without taking standard safty precausions. this is really not that difficult and if you dont like the radio buy a different one......my god!!!
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Old Feb 13, 2012, 01:31 PM
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vespa's Avatar
Thousand Oaks, CA
Joined Mar 2004
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No, it's not an example of an incorrect setup. The Berg 4L was one of the most popular 72MHz receivers for park fliers in recent history and not only was there no 5CH equivalent, most radios required a 6CH RX for separate ailerons. On 3-D park fliers the weight difference between 4-6CH receivers is significant. And to this day, lots of pilots use Y-cables on high performance aircraft that could benefit from separate aileron control. A perfect example is an indoor 3-D plane where the 4CH receiver is preferred for weight savings.
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Old Feb 13, 2012, 01:47 PM
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vespa's Avatar
Thousand Oaks, CA
Joined Mar 2004
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Anyway, I think we've clearly established that you should read every page in the manual, finding that model deletion clause on p.53. You should buy/borrow/steal an RX pack, remove the prop and wear a helmet whenever adjusting anything, no matter how minor. You should read all 4200 posts in this thread to learn about issues like this. And you should smile with glee every time your model gets deleted.

But the bottom line is that it's a problem that affects some people and it's fixable. So why defend it? At the very least they can make CH3-REV by default and change the "Are you sure?" dialog to "Delete model?" At most, they can allow wing/tail changes without deletion and allow editing of the default templates. Neither solution will bother anyone -- it's all good.
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Old Feb 13, 2012, 02:06 PM
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mirored's Avatar
United States, VA, Alexandria
Joined Nov 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcdfrd View Post
actually in that case I would just go to the funtion menu and add an aileron function to an open channel and walla!!! dont change model types without taking standard safty precausions. this is really not that difficult and if you dont like the radio buy a different one......my god!!!
Ahhh, buy a new radio. That is a real good idea.

Wait, that is what I did. I was using Spektrum and changed to Futaba, and it cost me a lot to do so only to find that this superior radio (and I do consider it superior) has this one major flaw that I personally hate, having to reverse the throttle on electric planes. I don't know that I will be willing to go through the expense of changing brands again, just realize that there are work arounds to avoid a repeat occurance. I am an old dog, but I can be taught new tricks. I guess I am wondering if learning tricks is the right approach? Shouldn't it be logical and straight forward?
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Old Feb 13, 2012, 02:35 PM
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SalamSyed's Avatar
United States, DC, Washington
Joined Oct 2009
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Originally Posted by mirored View Post
Ahhh, buy a new radio. That is a real good idea.

Wait, that is what I did. I was using Spektrum and changed to Futaba, and it cost me a lot to do so only to find that this superior radio (and I do consider it superior) has this one major flaw that I personally hate, having to reverse the throttle on electric planes. I don't know that I will be willing to go through the expense of changing brands again, just realize that there are work arounds to avoid a repeat occurance. I am an old dog, but I can be taught new tricks. I guess I am wondering if learning tricks is the right approach? Shouldn't it be logical and straight forward?
Andy,

These days I have been thinking to upgrade to another Futaba radio and the only other one that attracts me in the Futaba line-up is the new 18MZ. Other than that the 8FG is the best considering its cost.

I hate to talk bad about 8FG but we have to sort that issue of the radio rebooting by itself. It happend to both of us a few times and it scares me of alot so now I have disabled the menu screen in case the radio reboots so if it does, it directly goes back to the same model with the hope to buy in a few seconds to save my model.

I posted the issue once and no one responded so I guess it just you and me having that issue.
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Old Feb 13, 2012, 02:41 PM
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ricoalonso's Avatar
USA, KS, Derby
Joined Mar 2003
1,473 Posts
Quote:

... I hate to talk bad about 8FG but we have to sort that issue of the radio rebooting by itself...

.
Now there's something new and more disturbing. Had you communicated this to Futaba? Never encountered this but is it possibly a loose battery/power connection?
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Old Feb 13, 2012, 02:47 PM
Fly Low-Fly 3D-Fly Often
SalamSyed's Avatar
United States, DC, Washington
Joined Oct 2009
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Originally Posted by ricoalonso View Post
Now there's something new and more concerning. Had you communicated this to Futaba?

Never encountered this but is it possibly a loose battery/power connection?
That was the immediate thought so I checked the battery connector and it was not loose. I did not contact Futaba. I can't always replicated this issues but this is what posted after it happend a few times. Whenever it happend it was a slight bump on the sofa but never happend while flying or in my hand.

I openned the TX, checked every possible loose connection and made sure they are snug. Never happend after that. I have started using a piece of foam after the tx lipo to also make sure it does not move around.

Here is my post:

Quote:
Originally Posted by SalamSyed View Post
I was setting up a plane on my work bench and during that time I put the TX on the nearby sofa and moved back to my model. I noticed the TX went off and rebooted. Since I am using the model select menu so I had to select the model (hit RTN) to get everything back to normal. I gave it another try and bumped the TX on the sofa gently and after a few attempts it went off again. I am using a TX lipo which was showing a charge of 7.8V which I also confirmed with a battery tester, checked the power connector many times to make sure the power plug is not loose, tried many many times again and could not replicate the same thing. This same thing happened to another fellow flyer at the field once when he placed his 8FG on the bench. Later we tried the same thing many times and it never went off. What could be the cause of this shut down?
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