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Old Aug 10, 2009, 08:37 PM
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Lightning + Fenestron Tail = Crap!!!


After sending back that crap thing to them, they refuse to reply my emails.

Here is my experience : http://runryder.com/helicopter/t504484p1/
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Old Aug 10, 2009, 10:07 PM
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Joined Jul 2002
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adrianli
Lightning + Fenestron Tail = Crap!!!


After sending back that crap thing to them, they refuse to reply my emails.

Here is my experience : http://runryder.com/helicopter/t504484p1/

Like I said.
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Old Aug 10, 2009, 10:19 PM
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Monroe, WA
Joined Jan 2007
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Well, at least Rush has shown us a Fenestron Tail model that works.
But seeing that even Rush doesn't demonstrate the heli working with their own four blade rotor set, may mean that you guys are right about not be able to use a four blade rotor head with this system.

Remains to be seen!

RUSH EC135 - EP 450 Model Helicopter Test Fly (2 min 28 sec)
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Old Aug 10, 2009, 11:45 PM
Redjestird Youser
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Wow, first time I only saw the cad drawing and not the "received product" pictures (didnt load for me)...I'm speachless.
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Old Aug 11, 2009, 12:08 AM
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Dear Kin,

If you have a working 450size fenestron tail for sale, do let me know. My EC-135 is waiting for one. I have given up hope on the other vendor.

Thks,

Adrian
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Old Aug 11, 2009, 01:28 AM
3D and Scale RC Heli Pilot
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Joined Jan 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SidewaysLS4
Wow, first time I only saw the cad drawing and not the "received product" pictures (didnt load for me)...I'm speachless.
The market ready HeliArtist product has not yet been posted.
It will probably resemble an improved version of the Rush system.

This photo is of the failed Lightning Heli system.
It is from Adrianli's post on Runryder, where he pointed out many of the problems from the unit that he received.
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Old Aug 11, 2009, 07:12 AM
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If you want to fly the fenestron with the 4 bladed head you will need at least 4s or more. The fenestron absorbs a lot of power.
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Old Aug 11, 2009, 08:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wilerbee
If you want to fly the fenestron with the 4 bladed head you will need at least 4s or more. The fenestron absorbs a lot of power.
4S for me is not a problem... I'm using 6S1P
What u need is to have higher speed tail rotor. Correct me if I'm wrong, in Vario Fenestron design (and even in real heli with fenestron tail), their Fenestron tail spin about 10x of the main rotor.

Oh...BTW, my OH-6D with 5 bladed head (TRex450), I'm using 6S1P. The tail is only 2 blades but I modify the tail gearing in such a way it spin about 6.5x of the main rotor.


EDIT: What I'm trying to say is... It is not because u need 4S for 4 bladed and fenestron tail. The Rush comment stated it required 4S is because I suspect their Fenestron tail STILL spin as the same speed as normal 450size heli (that is, 4.2x or 4.5). Because in fenestron tail, the tail blades is much shorter and thus, to counteract the main rotor torque, u make the main rotor spin much faster by going higher cell count in the battery. Because increase in main rotor also increase in tail speed.

This is actually not good way or prefer way to do it. Because in multibladed, spin it in low RPM is much better. So, to counteract the main rotor while still having low RPM on the main rotor, U increase the tail RPM instead. That is why they should consider to design the fenestron tail to spin at...well, maybe 8x to 10x.

SH
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Old Aug 11, 2009, 09:55 AM
Redjestird Youser
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Hmm, high tail speed/absorbing power, and it's belt drive? Just thinking of that Jet Ranger I put into the ground yesterday because the belt snapped (testing out a nutty piro rate with this new gyro I got, lol). I'm scared of heavy belt loading in a weighty scale fuselage now.
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Old Aug 11, 2009, 01:37 PM
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BlackTitanium,

Thanks for that video of the rusheli fenestron in flight. Anyone care to hazard a guess based on that video: Will that fenestron unit fit in existing EC-135 fuselages like this one?

http://flying-hobby.com/catalog/prod...oducts_id=5041
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Old Aug 11, 2009, 02:13 PM
3D and Scale RC Heli Pilot
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Monroe, WA
Joined Jan 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nuttymango
BlackTitanium,

Thanks for that video of the rusheli fenestron in flight. Anyone care to hazard a guess based on that video: Will that fenestron unit fit in existing EC-135 fuselages like this one?

http://flying-hobby.com/catalog/prod...oducts_id=5041
The EC-135 fuselages are all from the same mold, so more than likely yes with a little Dremel work. Look at the photo of the Rush kit and you'll see what I mean.

However, I don't think that you could buy just the Fenestron System from Rush.

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Old Aug 11, 2009, 02:59 PM
kin
Composite factory
Joined Sep 2007
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I have seen the Rush heli the fan in side ! It is big different of the Lighting one .The lighting are very heavy that is touch it in Shanghai hobby show .I can not judge anything about it ,because it is on the show table only .i don't know the perforamce ! but the Rush heli are flying with me in field . so the rmp need high in the unchange tail pully (trex 450 standard pully ) so you can know the gear ratio ! It fly normal head only ! If you put a four blade rotor head and 4 blades rotor in 2000-2300 rpm .you can see how the load of the motor (hot water pot ) and how dangerous of the multi rotor head ! so i don't think will offer a good performance in their multi blades party .So why we don't develope any fan tail in 450 ! I think a good multi head perforamce in this size shouls be 1700-1900 rpm in 4 blades head .But their factory can not provide different gear ratio to customer select their different number blades speed .So the tail speed will very diffcult to match the big different head speed .Too much unknow information before pay for !We provid the products is a tested pass and we judged is good for the customer and we are not selling the "shell " only ,
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Old Aug 11, 2009, 03:05 PM
kin
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The Rush Fan tail case on my hand , it is light ! the mistake only the head rpm ! Design is ok ! very light ! i sure injestion mold win !
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Old Aug 11, 2009, 03:26 PM
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I am negotiating with Rush to get one of their EC-135's sent to me. I have a quote and shipping costs and the product is available for sale. If I succeed, I'll share the impressions here.

Cheers - Boyd
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Old Aug 12, 2009, 09:16 AM
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Here's my exchange of e-mails with Rush documenting my attempt to get the EC-135.
Read and weep.

Quote:
----- Original Message -----
From: sales
To: Boyd Pethtel
Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 5:11 AM
Subject: Re: How do I buy your products?




Boyd Pethtel 提到:
I want to buy one metal and plastic version. I want to get RU-EC135/03 with the red and white paint as shown in the picture attached. Please confirm that the quote you just sent me is still for two sets of the RU-EC-135/03. I'm sure you can't expect anyone to pay $611.00USD for a 450 size heli. Please confirm that the price for one RU-EC-135/03 is $305.50USD.

The shipping rates you quoted me are also way out of line. I do business regularly with a number of merchants in Hong Kong like Flying-Hobby.com and PW-RC.com and can get a kit size box that contains a T-Rex 700 shipped to USA Zip code .......via HK EMS for $80.00USD. I can't understand why your EMS rates are so much higher than the competition. Please clarify the EMS shipping cost for one heli kit to USA Zip code ......
I really want to place this order, but my questions need to be addressed first.

Thanks for your help in this matter.



Dear Boyd,

Our quotation usd 611 is only for 1 set, this is not a normal 450 heli, this EC135 is our new developed 7 tail fan system, it looks much better and lighter than others and can fly quite good, it is first launch in the world. Our fuselage and mechanical kit are specially made for this tail, even Align cannot develop this kind of technique, you can see their EC135 tail are looked so bad, it cannot be called scale model. And other kit cannot fit in this tail. Sorry, this is our best price for end user.

For the EMS app. usd 120, I checked with your postcode, we get this quote from post office for 9.4kg ---> hkd 925/7.74 = usd 119.5, they charge base on the package weight, from experience we sent this EC135 to other people is 9.4kg and 9.2kg depends what is included, and we do not earn any money from this at all, we will provide EMS payment slip to you after sent.

Best Regards,
Fion




Fion - Thanks for all your efforts. Part of a successful product launch is hitting the right price point. You are going to have a dismal failure on your hands asking for more than $600.00USD for this heli. This is more than a Vario would cost and I am sure your heli is no Vario. Good luck with your sales. You'll need to find someone more foolish than I to sell these to.

Cheers - Boyd
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