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Old Aug 08, 2009, 12:08 PM
3D and Scale RC Heli Pilot
BlackTitanium's Avatar
Monroe, WA
Joined Jan 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoverup
You're kidding right?
... but the HeliArtist Fenestron will not be an all plastic Fenestron assembly, like the Rush Fenestron is.
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Old Aug 08, 2009, 12:15 PM
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Hoverup's Avatar
Golden Gulf Coast
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackTitanium
... but the HA will not be all plastic Fenestron assembly, like the Rush Fenestron is.

You posted
Quote:
The Rush fenestron looks very similar to the HeliArtist fenestron.
so I thought you meant they were alike. Using aluminum for this item is likely exactly the wrong way to go considering C of G issues.

Cheers - Boyd
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Old Aug 08, 2009, 12:26 PM
3D and Scale RC Heli Pilot
BlackTitanium's Avatar
Monroe, WA
Joined Jan 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoverup
...Using aluminum for this item is likely exactly the wrong way to go considering C of G issues.

Cheers - Boyd

I agree.
But it seems that if we want to have Fenestron tails on our 450 sized helicopters, we're going to have to deal with weight and CG issue and not expect to use stock power systems to fly them.
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Old Aug 08, 2009, 01:12 PM
kin
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The reason to make a cnc metal that is a easy or lower cost to start a products .The parts and the case (ring )make injection mold about 3000usd ,even the products cost is lower ,but the 450 selling cost is small and the profit return should be very long time ,they need how many quantity to cover the mold cost !!The selling profit is not cover the fan part only ,still have resin,glass cloth ,paint ,wood parts,landing gear ,plastic canopy ,screw,worker,mechanic lost ........ so cnc that is the only way to make it in small quantity ,and easy change and modification ,but the weight is another problem .
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Old Aug 08, 2009, 01:45 PM
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If u said CNC is cheaper than injection molding, then what about instead of CNC metal, u CNC plastic block instead. Will that be cheaper AND lighter?

SH
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Old Aug 08, 2009, 02:17 PM
kin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Super_Hornet
If u said CNC is cheaper than injection molding, then what about instead of CNC metal, u CNC plastic block instead. Will that be cheaper AND lighter?

SH
It is no a model answer ! depend on your quantity ,if you do the quantity in 50-100 piece that is not possible to do a injection mold for a parts ,if you make a injection mold for a parts must be some thousand piece to cover the mold cost ! This is very diffcult to make choice
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Old Aug 08, 2009, 07:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Super_Hornet
If u said CNC is cheaper than injection molding, then what about instead of CNC metal, u CNC plastic block instead. Will that be cheaper AND lighter?

SH
Good thinking SH. It opens the possibility of using Delrin in areas that have moving contact and Delrin rotor blades would be just about indestructible.

Cheers - Boyd
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Old Aug 08, 2009, 08:56 PM
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CNC plastic is used for prototyping; too expensive to produce in mass. The reason CNC metal parts is "inexpensive" in comparison is because machinists and mold-maker wages are much lower in Southern China. Many thanks to their apprenticeship programs which the US used to have for those who found college education too expensive.

Although china is fast growing, it's still behind the west in many areas.

http://www.connecticutplastics.com/c...FRYiagodqB5ueA
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Old Aug 08, 2009, 10:26 PM
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Plastic injection molding also requires a larger investment in making the molds, and the cost can only be recovered by selling more products, so if you have no confidence in your product, or feel that your product will be copied in a short time then why invest ?
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Old Aug 08, 2009, 10:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wilerbee
Plastic injection molding also requires a larger investment in making the molds, and the cost can only be recovered by selling more products, so if you have no confidence in your product, or feel that your product will be copied in a short time then why invest ?

That is why I was thinking of instead of making mold for it, do CNC on plastic and sell it fast and cheap. U don't have to be one time producing a lot. Producing batch by batch...till the clone market pick up and u move on to other design.

SH
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Old Aug 09, 2009, 03:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wilerbee
Plastic injection molding also requires a larger investment in making the molds, and the cost can only be recovered by selling more products, so if you have no confidence in your product, or feel that your product will be copied in a short time then why invest ?

Makes perfect sense. Now I just hope we see a functional fenestron for 450-500-600 size scale models.
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Old Aug 09, 2009, 06:12 AM
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I'll buy one. Maybe even two.

Hoverup,

I believe you have flown the four-blade black angel head (fully flapping) from CopterX, have you not?

I have one waiting to go on an EC-135 as soon as a 450-sized fenestron is available. I think my 3500kV motor and 50A ESC may be able to handle a 4S lipo especially with the selection of 8, 9, 10, and 11T pinions I have.

Can you share (again) your experience with the four-blade head from CopterX? Do you think it will be a good match for this fenestron tail?
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Old Aug 09, 2009, 07:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nuttymango
Hoverup,

I believe you have flown the four-blade black angel head (fully flapping) from CopterX, have you not?
Yes I have and it is a sweet flying head. No electronic aids required here. It's a fully flapping and lead-lag design.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nuttymango
I have one waiting to go on an EC-135 as soon as a 450-sized fenestron is available. I think my 3500kV motor and 50A ESC may be able to handle a 4S lipo especially with the selection of 8, 9, 10, and 11T pinions I have.
Sounds like a good plan if you're going with a TRex 450 or clone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nuttymango
Can you share (again) your experience with the four-blade head from CopterX?
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...=Copter+X+head

Quote:
Originally Posted by nuttymango
Do you think it will be a good match for this fenestron tail?
It's more a question if the coming fenestron will be a good match for any multi-blade head. The main rotor torque that must be overcome by the fenestron or T/R is the design parameter input that is the driver for a successful setup. More blades equal more rotational torque to be overcome so the fenestron will need to be able to deal with multi-blade heads from the get-go. If the vendor shows up with a fenestron that is too slow (rpm) and/or does not have sufficient pitch range to work with multiblade heads, then it will be another still-born product much like the disaster LightningHeli tried to foist on us a few months back.

HTH - Boyd
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Old Aug 09, 2009, 08:49 AM
My hobby is why Im broke
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I think sometimes they thrust out there a design thats not fully tried and true or a design that still needs to be debugged. Sometimes its best they dont even announce a product until it is user ready.
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Old Aug 09, 2009, 08:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wilerbee
Plastic injection molding also requires a larger investment in making the molds, and the cost can only be recovered by selling more products, so if you have no confidence in your product, or feel that your product will be copied in a short time then why invest ?
Copying others is in human nature; you will be making nothing in fear of others copying what you do nor will you be making a killing in profit. Of course, we all do what we believe in.

Quote:
Originally Posted by darthdrk
I think sometimes they thrust out there a design thats not fully tried and true or a design that still needs to be debugged. Sometimes its best they dont even announce a product until it is user ready.
IPhone is a good example; wasn't perfect at the beginning and it is still not perfect.
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