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Old Aug 07, 2009, 04:20 PM
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Hangar 9 Toledo special

Been thinking about pulling the trigger on this "sport trainer".
http://www.hangar-9.com/Products/Def...ProdID=HAN4860

Does anyone know anything about how it flies on the recommended electric setup (power 46)?

I would like to fly it on 4s since I dont want to buy a whole bunch of new batteries.

There is a thread about it but most of those guys are flying fuel.

Anyone have this set up as electric?
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Old Aug 07, 2009, 04:47 PM
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Hey now,
I don't really know because I've never seen it IRL, but going from the wing loading, general shape, and other bits it looks like it'd be a nice comfortable cruiser. Not an extreme anything surely but plesant to fly in a cruise around kind of way. I do know the motor and at the weight of the model and style of flight it's designed for it should be plenty of power on 4s.

I know the power 46 on 4s puts out a lot more power than your average sporty .46 glow engine. I wouldn't worry at all.
RobII
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Old Aug 07, 2009, 04:55 PM
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Joined Oct 2007
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Way ta go Hangar 9. Ripping off the original Sig Rascal

That plane would fly nicely as electric. My Sig Rascal 40, which is pretty much similar sized (and shapped) flies awesome on a Cermark NEO 15-900, Jeti 70 amp ESC, and a Turnigy 4000 mah 3S lipo driving an APC 12x8 prop At 5.6lbs, it climbs at around 40*.

This means that a Toledo Special on the same seup should fly similarly
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Old Aug 08, 2009, 01:38 AM
Citizen #96
Steve Graham's Avatar
NE Denver, CO
Joined Sep 2007
677 Posts
I just completed one. It weighs 6lb 1 oz with a hyperion 4200Mah 4S onboard.

I should be maidening it in a day or two.

Just a couple of issues so far. The prop collet supplied with the motor only allows a couple of threads for installation of the nut when the spinner is installed. I got a great planes collet that was longer but on first power up it spun right off the motor destroying a new apc 14*7 prop. For now I will not use the spinner. Better cooling anyway.

Also the screws provided for use with the motor standoffs were about a quarter inch too short for me to be comfortable using. I could only get a couple of threads started into the blind nuts?

Kind of makes me wonder if E-Flite actually set up and flew this model with EP before they shipped it?

The battery tray seems to be a good design though and the model was easy to balance with this battery.
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Old Aug 09, 2009, 03:03 PM
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United States, NY, Rochester
Joined Jan 2006
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Toledo Special

WW,

Any build photos available and any other build tips or issues would
be appreciated. Also, if possible, have someone video your maiden
flight as I'm sure that a lot of guys will be most interested. Good
luck with the first flight.
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Old Aug 10, 2009, 06:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xpress..
Way ta go Hangar 9. Ripping off the original Sig Rascal
Does look a lot like a Rascal doesnt it? Except its $50 more!

Well I guess anyone designing a high wing sport plane would probably end up with a similar looking design and wing shape.
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Old Aug 14, 2009, 06:18 PM
Citizen #96
Steve Graham's Avatar
NE Denver, CO
Joined Sep 2007
677 Posts
My TS did fly 3 times without spars before the wing failed. Every time I say thats the dumbest thing I ever did in RC I seem to find a way to top it so I'm just not going to say it Suffice to say I have too many projects laying around the house in too many pieces in too many places. I knew when I put the wings on that it didn't seem like they had enough support and even commented to my neighbor that there probably should have been spars. I was looking at the wings when I said it and the holes for the spars are as obvious as they can possibly be. It finally hit me as I was walking out to get the trash pile. There were. I just hadn't even seen them since the day I took them out of the box and set them aside.

I already have another one and am putting it together. I had to replace the blind screws in the landing gear mounting plate because they had glue in the threads from the factory and caused the screws to strip out. I can't count the number of times I've had blind nuts strip out. It is one component I wish we could figure out how to do without.

Anyway I'm not in too much of a hurry to finish TS2 as HH has my TX for repair. This month is going to suck.

Seems like very little interest in this plane and half of it is people mad that HH ripped off an old design. I like the looks of the plane however so will give it one more try.
Somtimes I think I should take up knitting
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Last edited by Steve Graham; Aug 16, 2009 at 11:34 AM.
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Old Aug 15, 2009, 08:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by terrabit2001
Been thinking about pulling the trigger on this "sport trainer".
http://www.hangar-9.com/Products/Def...ProdID=HAN4860
Well, It's done .. I grabbed it!
I went to the LHS and I didnt think they had one in stock, so I almost got the H9 40 size Cub instead ... but at the last second I saw one stuck way high on a top shelf... considered it fate and grabbed it.

I have to say this is a really well built, beautiful plane. Very solid and a great color scheme. I just have to wait till payday to get the power system since I blew my RC budget for this paycheck. Want to stay married for now

I am planning on using the recommended power 46 on 4s. Have to do more research on prop sizing. I would rather have longer flight times than really agressive performance.

I will log this build and put the wattmeter on it, so I can get you guys some numbers if you are interested. You will have to wait a few weeks though.
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Old Aug 16, 2009, 11:32 AM
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Steve Graham's Avatar
NE Denver, CO
Joined Sep 2007
677 Posts
Terrabit,

I used the power 46 and Hyperion G3 4200 4s pack with an APC 14*7. IIRC it was pulling high 700,s for power and mid 50's amperage. All within specs for Battery, E-flite 60 ESC and right at the limit for the motor amps so as long as you don't overdo it this setup should work. I'm at 5500 feet MSL so you may get a little better performance. Be sure the collet is tight. I've read that many are getting away from collets at hgher EP settings becuase they may not hold a prop pulling almost 1 HP. After mine came off on testing I got rid of the spinner and am using just the E-flite collet as I think it will be more reliable and at any rates flows more cooling to the motor. It balanced fine. I never really used a lot of full power and flew it pretty gently since I was concerned about the wings. It seemed to have plenty of power for gentle sport flying. Not 3D The first couple of flights were about 5 min and I didn't put a lot back into the batt so you should get at least 10 minutes probably a little more. I'll post again when I get it rebuilt and some more testing in with the wings properely supported.

With the tail I found that the Horizontal stab and elevator were not tight with the nuts all the way tight to the point of starting to deform the internal structure. I cut two pieces of heavy duty construction paper to shape and used this as a shim between the stab and the tail and it tightened every thing up fine with no slop.

I think that like the cub which has a similar planeform you will want to carefully coordinate your turns with rudder and or program a fairly healthy aileron to rudder mix so that the tail follows the nose through the turns.

Good Luck

Steve.
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Old Aug 16, 2009, 07:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W.W. Corrigan
Terrabit,

I used the power 46 and Hyperion G3 4200 4s pack with an APC 14*7. .

Hey that's some great info. Thanks for the feedback!
So I think I will stick with the 4s/power46 setup then.

Are Hitec hs-225's too small for this plane? I have a bunch kicking around, but doesnt this plane need standard servos?

You say you were concerned about the wing? Does it seem like a likely point of failure? Is there anything I could maybe do to strengthen it up and still h ave it as a 2 pc wing?

I think for the tail I will just end up epoxying it together since I doubt I will ever have a need to remove it.

E flite now sells an integrated spinner/collet that looks really sharp in brushed aluminum... I will probably pick up one of those.
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Old Aug 28, 2009, 07:20 PM
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United States, GA, Atlanta
Joined Mar 2005
984 Posts
The .46 setup on 4S is adequate and no more. It depends on what you want and how you want the plane to fly. The wing takes weight very easy. Go with a lower KV motor like a 4020 Scorpion (no more than 570 KV), 5S voltage and your amps will drop and input watts increase. A 14/7 will draw low amps but if you like a 15/8 will really move well at around 50 amps. This will run on a 60 amp ESC without hitting the top. As always run a good external BEC. The new Hitec 478 servos are perfect for this plane on 6V and cheap.

The plane does not need mixing to fly well. Banks are smooth with good tracking. I have found on this plane the CG needs to be set correctly. The stock CG is not the best final setup. Start there and test to find what works for the setup you have installed. Also this plane likes a little speed, it is not a CUB and is not happy being flown like one.

By the way the cheesy decals come off easily. Drastically improves the planes looks. Add a nice registration number on the rear fuse completes the look.

I have found the stock spinner works just fine. Yes you need to drill it accurately and balance it but other than that it works just fine with no vibration. At this time I have not found a replacement that is the correct base diameter outside of having a custom True Turn made and paint to match.

That is what I have learned with my Toledo, nice plane for lazy relaxed flying.
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Last edited by Jaguar22; Aug 31, 2009 at 08:47 AM.
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Old Aug 30, 2009, 11:08 AM
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Aurora Municipal, Illinois, United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by terrabit2001
Does look a lot like a Rascal doesnt it? Except its $50 more!

Well I guess anyone designing a high wing sport plane would probably end up with a similar looking design and wing shape.
The Rascal isn't an original Sig design either. The Rascal was designed by Carl Goldberg. Proving that if your going to steal an idea, steal from the best.
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Old Aug 31, 2009, 10:23 AM
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Steve Graham's Avatar
NE Denver, CO
Joined Sep 2007
677 Posts
HI Terrabit,

There is nothing wrong with the wing. Dont forget the spars

Once I shimed the tail with a single piece of heavy duty card stock it was very tight and wont go anywhere. No glue needed. It was the only sound and completely intact piece after my nose plant from 100 feet up.
Tailwinds, Steve
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Old Sep 06, 2009, 11:05 PM
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Steve Graham's Avatar
NE Denver, CO
Joined Sep 2007
677 Posts
I maidened TS 2 today. All is well. Flew in fairly thick grass at a local soccer field and the first 2 landings it nosed over gently onto its back. The first time it broke a prop. Finally on landing #3 I got it down and it stayed upright I think mostly because I got it slow enough before landing. My AUW is 6.25 lbs. The model slows down very well. Its just going to take me some time to get used to flying a model that weighs this much slowed up. Ailerons become a little mushy with some slight pitch oscillations just before the stall break. And it is fairly reluctant to snap over the top unless you provoke it pretty hard.

On go arounds you should give it a little right rudder as the nose swings fairly noticably left with this much power if left unattended. Rudder authority during takeoff is direct. I added power fairly slowly to ensure that I kept her straight.

This airplane has a very high degree of completion in China. The tail group bolts on. I stripped a landing gear blind nut, I hate these !@#$%^ things. I got some higher quality slightly larger blind nuts and SS cap screws from Ace and installed these into an additional piece of 1/4 inch Basswood gorilla glued on top of the factory gear plate. It all seems very solid now.

The wing bolts were very tight and after lubricating the blind nuts and bolts with a silicon spay they were a lot easier to get tight.

The motor bolts I felt were a little short so I got longer ones from Ace as well.

I had a prop come off while testing with the spinner and have not used it since but I may be a little paranoid. I am now using the E-flight collet by itself. I read somewhere to use alcohol to clean the motor shaft and a q-tip inside the collet and the last time I went to remove the prop it was nearly impossible to get off even with the collet nut completely removed. So I'm a little less gun shy now of collets on higher power setups. Is there a secret for knocking loose a seized collet?

Did I mention not to forget the spars

Tailwinds, Steve
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Old Sep 07, 2009, 06:03 AM
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United States, GA, Atlanta
Joined Mar 2005
984 Posts
How could anyone forget to put the wing spar in the wing before flight?

If you don't care for the crimp type prop adapters, order the dual set screw prop adapters for the Eflite .90 motor. Very good quality and robust.

They come as a pair set:

http://www.e-fliterc.com/Products/De...odID=EFLM40902
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