Discussion Castle Introduces PHOENIX ICE

[Alan Hahn]

Originally Posted by rolexcomex

I am getting some pretty significant discrepancies on the logging feature of the ICE 100amp esc vs the Eagletree elogger V3 150amp.

Now I dont know who to believe..

Same session one from the eagletree and the second from the ICE 100

<snip>....

I wonder if the ICE is reporting average battery current or max (instantaneous) current. The Eagle Tree is certainly average battery current

It would be great to get a description of what the log-able parameters really are--and what they are. Their description might be in the CC software, but that you need to have installed (I'm still happily running summer 2008 software on my Phoenix controllers, a 45, two 35's, a 25, and a 10) that I use in Control line planes.

[RC Man]

Originally Posted by Alan Hahn

I wonder if the ICE is reporting average battery current or max (instantaneous) current. The Eagle Tree is certainly average battery current

It would be great to get a description of what the log-able parameters really are--and what they are. Their description might be in the CC software, but that you need to have installed (I'm still happily running summer 2008 software on my Phoenix controllers, a 45, two 35's, a 25, and a 10) that I use in Control line planes.

Has anyone done a bench test with a wattmeter? I don’t have an ICE installed on an airplane or I would do that myself.

[Raydee]

I wonder in a future firmware update if it is possible to log the BEC output. I would def like to make sure I am not overloading the bec in my Flybarless heli.

[Patrick del Castillo]

Originally Posted by Raydee

I wonder in a future firmware update if it is possible to log the BEC output. I would def like to make sure I am not overloading the bec in my Flybarless heli.

Unfortunately, the hardware support for measuring BEC current isn't on the ICE series - -the BEC current is monitored by the switching regulator chip, and the processor doesn't have any access to the information.

[dehicka]

Patrick del Castillo

Patrick, I have couple a questions about 50 Lite version:
1. Does info from http://www.castlespecialprojects.com...oenix_ice.html
apply to sellling units and ICE 50 Lite have a 90A burst rating?
2. Am I right that BEC 5A is a peak rating or continous?
3. Can you comment defference in rolexcomex logs between eagle and CC logs from this post
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...4&postcount=39

I've ordered ICE Lite 50 anyway
Thanx, Dennis.

[RC Man]

2. It you look at the ICE page it says 5 amps continuous at 33.6 volts. Your ESC has a 22.5v limit so your BEC has a big margin built in.
http://www.castlecreations.com/produ...oenix_ice.html

[dehicka]

Phoenix Ice brings the ability to run at input voltages of up to 8S* (33.6) and use the built in switching BEC to output up to 5 amps of servo power all the way up to the 8S max.

No word about contionous or peak.

[Z06kal]

How does the 100 amp ICE compare to the HV85 when using both at 8S. Will the ICE 100 do 100 continuous even at 8S voltage? I remember that the older phoenix controllers could not handle their rated amperage when ran under max 6S voltage. If I'm looking to burst about 95 amps on 8S am I better off with the HV85 or the ICE 100?

[FNFAL]

Just got my Ice 100 8S from Tower Hobbies. I ordered a Lite (6S)...but this is what they sent me instead. This seems to be a re-occuring situation at tower based on others similar comments. I don't need 8S capacity or the weight...but oh well...it sure is a beautiful hunk of metal...and the "hard-case" kind-of protects the board from physical damage.

It's got big honking 10ga wire not only on the battery side, but the motor side too.

People say that the weight difference between the 75A and 100A is nill, so why not get the 100A. But what they don't realize, is that published weights are without wires, so the difference in real life situations will be more...especially if you plan to run 10ga wire back to an EDF or something.

[Patrick del Castillo]

Originally Posted by dehicka

Patrick del Castillo

Patrick, I have couple a questions about 50 Lite version:
1. Does info from http://www.castlespecialprojects.com...oenix_ice.html
apply to sellling units and ICE 50 Lite have a 90A burst rating?
2. Am I right that BEC 5A is a peak rating or continous?
3. Can you comment defference in rolexcomex logs between eagle and CC logs from this post
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...4&postcount=39

I've ordered ICE Lite 50 anyway
Thanx, Dennis.

1. Yes. Remember those burst ratings are for 10seconds on, 1000 seconds off, repeated.

2. The 5A rating is average current out from the BEC.

3. No, I can't comment on that, other than to say he's the only one who has seen a significant difference between the ICE and the Eagletree. With only two data sources, it's impossible to tell which logger is incorrectly calibrated. There have been lots of posts which show no significant difference between the Eagletree and the ICE datalogging.

[rolexcomex]

Originally Posted by Patrick del Castillo

1. Yes. Remember those burst ratings are for 10seconds on, 1000 seconds off, repeated.

2. The 5A rating is average current out from the BEC.

3. No, I can't comment on that, other than to say he's the only one who has seen a significant difference between the ICE and the Eagletree. With only two data sources, it's impossible to tell which logger is incorrectly calibrated. There have been lots of posts which show no significant difference between the Eagletree and the ICE datalogging.

Just a follow up. I did do a repeat trial. ICE, eagletree, and bantam wattmeter. The numbers of the eagletree and wattmeter correlated very well, the ICE was about 10% higher in all parameters. So, I must have the only ICE controller outhere that is not correctly calibrated. For now, I will just continue to use the eagletree. The ESC works fine otherwise and its probably just not worth sending back for just that feature. I am a little disappointed.

[FNFAL]

Yes, this is key. If you go up to 90A burst on a 50A unit, then with only 10 seconds of that you'll have to wait almost 17 minutes of off-duty to cool her down (sure, less if you're somewhere in the middle between 50-90A). But for the most part, that's more than the entire flight...and 10 seconds can go by pretty fast. Therefore, I won't be relying on bust figures for average flying.

Originally Posted by Patrick del Castillo

1. Yes. Remember those burst ratings are for 10seconds on, 1000 seconds off, repeated.

.

[Patrick del Castillo]

Originally Posted by FNFAL

Yes, this is key. If you go up to 90A burst on a 50A unit, then with only 10 second of that you have to wait almost 17 minutes of off-duty to cool her (sure, less if you're somewhere in the middle between 50-90A). But for the most part, that's more than the entire flight...and 10 seconds can go by pretty fast. Therefore, I won't be relying on bust figures for average flying.

No, you don't want to use the burst ratings for average flying, and that's the point. The burst ratings are for maximum current for short periods of time on a controller at room temperature ONLY.

[Patrick del Castillo]

Originally Posted by rolexcomex

Just a follow up. I did do a repeat trial. ICE, eagletree, and bantam wattmeter. The numbers of the eagletree and wattmeter correlated very well, the ICE was about 10% higher in all parameters. So, I must have the only ICE controller outhere that is not correctly calibrated. For now, I will just continue to use the eagletree. The ESC works fine otherwise and its probably just not worth sending back for just that feature. I am a little disappointed.

Sounds like there is a calibration offset on your unit. There is about a 5% variation from unit to unit, which we then calibrate to about 2-3% before shipping. It's possible your unit was incorrectly calibrated.

A 10% offset isn't terrible though -- the ICE wasn't designed to be a laboratory instrument. It wasn't designed to replace dedicated loggers like the Eagletree. It was designed to allow for some simple logging and checks for the average user.

You can return it to have the calibration checked, and recalibrated if necessary.

[FNFAL]

Patrick,

Your earlier liturature has what appears to be an Ice (lite) 100 rated at 58A continuous in 0 LFM air flow.

Does this apply for both versions of the Ice (6S) and (8S)?


Does this amp rating increase when operating an Ice under less than max Volt conditions, say at 5S supply?

If indeed the electronics are the same in the 6S and the 8S versions with only the heatsink as the difference, then perhaps the 58A can be bumped on the heatsink model?

Thanks,
Steve