SMALL - espritmodel.com SMALL - Telemetry SMALL - Radio
Reply
Thread Tools
Old Aug 03, 2009, 12:19 AM
Registered User
norstaroption's Avatar
Pacifica, CA USA
Joined May 2009
452 Posts
Discussion
Wind Rider Bat

I just placed an order for a Wind Rider Bat. I read couple of threads regarding CG of the Bat. Most of them are different. Can anyone please let me know where your CG is?
norstaroption is offline Find More Posts by norstaroption
Reply With Quote
Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
Old Aug 03, 2009, 12:44 AM
delete account
atmosteve's Avatar
Australia, QLD, Fraser Island
Joined Nov 2007
3,875 Posts
Waaaaah!!!

Just start off with the point at plan, and not behind.
If anything make it a slight touch forward of plan and add a tiny touch of +reflex to the elevons. If you are newish to this form of soaring then it can appear to be a bit of a dark art, but its not, and i don't mean to assume you are new to sloping foamies or any kind of rc when I say that.

Its only evident physics when we make the mental connection. At any rate play around with it and have fun, but you are better off with this models handling to be a little nose heavy and in positive control than cg being near the neutral point and having fussy, stally behaviour. It'll give you some authority and a point to start from to work back to with your CG point, rather than the other way around, backwards to forwards, leave that for the crazy amongst us. At any rate the Bat in all its forms is a top fun little flyer on most slopes. I wish you well.

steve.
atmosteve is offline Find More Posts by atmosteve
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 03, 2009, 12:50 AM
Confirmed Chronic
screamin' eagle's Avatar
Pacific Palisades, CA
Joined Jul 2004
9,238 Posts
Keep in mind that there were some modified versions made with a straight trailing edge (Predator Bat) which may explain the varying CG locations.
screamin' eagle is online now Find More Posts by screamin' eagle
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 03, 2009, 02:40 AM
Registered DSer
Kahnx's Avatar
Australia, VIC, Hadfield
Joined Mar 2003
2,862 Posts
Ming's stock CoG is way too far forward. Look through the build threads and you'll find that the optimum point is about 5" - 5-1/8" from the nose. Remember, though to remove the trailing edge reflex. These planes are fantastic when modified. I have made several of them in both forms - search under my name to see my threads. Also see Predator's build threads - he has done many of them.

Cheers

Roger.
Kahnx is online now Find More Posts by Kahnx
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 03, 2009, 11:23 AM
Registered User
norstaroption's Avatar
Pacifica, CA USA
Joined May 2009
452 Posts
Thank you very much. Sorry for my ignorance, what's the reflex?
norstaroption is offline Find More Posts by norstaroption
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 03, 2009, 11:33 AM
Objects in mirror are losing
1000MPH's Avatar
USA, NV, Reno
Joined May 2003
3,586 Posts
Kahnx is correct.
Search "Predator Bat" and settle in for some reading.
Reflex is the upturned trailing edge of the wing.
The opposite of camber.
1000MPH is offline Find More Posts by 1000MPH
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 03, 2009, 11:53 AM
Registered User
norstaroption's Avatar
Pacifica, CA USA
Joined May 2009
452 Posts
Can you still order a Predator Bat?
norstaroption is offline Find More Posts by norstaroption
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 03, 2009, 01:45 PM
__Jackass Savant__
theBOZman's Avatar
United States, CA, Oxnard
Joined Feb 2005
2,505 Posts
Check with Karl
theBOZman is offline Find More Posts by theBOZman
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 04, 2009, 11:36 AM
Registered User
norstaroption's Avatar
Pacifica, CA USA
Joined May 2009
452 Posts
Is the Bat good enough when build the standard way? This will be my second slope plane only. I've been flying a ridge runner by Wing Warrior for couple of months now. And getting bored with the speed. I'm afraid to do any dramatic change to the plane with my little experience. Thanks in advance.
norstaroption is offline Find More Posts by norstaroption
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 04, 2009, 11:38 AM
Confirmed Chronic
screamin' eagle's Avatar
Pacific Palisades, CA
Joined Jul 2004
9,238 Posts
I built mine pretty stock except for using balsa elevons. It was a pretty fun flyer, but like all planes with center-mounted/boom mounted fins, keeping that functional was a bit of a challenge. It was my second plane so I didn't know enough to remove the reflex or make any of the other mods that I would make now.
screamin' eagle is online now Find More Posts by screamin' eagle
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 04, 2009, 11:53 AM
Registered User
codezilla's Avatar
Chino Hills, CA
Joined Feb 2003
2,370 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by norstaroption
Is the Bat good enough when build the standard way? This will be my second slope plane only. I've been flying a ridge runner by Wing Warrior for couple of months now. And getting bored with the speed. I'm afraid to do any dramatic change to the plane with my little experience. Thanks in advance.
Yes. I built mine standard with the kit supplied tape & hardware, and it flew great. Only mod I did was to flatten the TE to reduce the reflex, and I did it by bending it flat with the bottom and used tape to hold it in place. In stock form, it's a great light wind sloper. Pretty fast and smooth. Make sure you dial down the elevator throw and get the CG right. I'd start with factory CG, then move the CG back slowly and reducing elevator throw at the same time until it flies smooth with a touch of down elevator when inverted. Again, you need VERY LITTLE ELEVATOR THROW, otherwise, it will be very hard to control when you move the CG back.

Adrian
codezilla is offline Find More Posts by codezilla
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 04, 2009, 01:50 PM
Objects in mirror are losing
1000MPH's Avatar
USA, NV, Reno
Joined May 2003
3,586 Posts
You can build it stock and still have fun. My buddy built one with absolutely no glue and it's still going strong. Then when you're bored, strip the tape off and you can rebuild into a monster.
1000MPH is offline Find More Posts by 1000MPH
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 04, 2009, 05:13 PM
Registered User
norstaroption's Avatar
Pacifica, CA USA
Joined May 2009
452 Posts
Ok thanks, I'll try to install balsa elevons. And looking at the picture of the Bat, the fins are ugly. I'll see if I can find a visual instructions on changing that to a single fin.
norstaroption is offline Find More Posts by norstaroption
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 04, 2009, 11:15 PM
Registered User
norstaroption's Avatar
Pacifica, CA USA
Joined May 2009
452 Posts
Approximately, how much weight am I looking at to balance a normal built bat? Sorry, asking so much questions. I don't even have the kit yet. I'm just trying to prepare everything.

Thanks.
norstaroption is offline Find More Posts by norstaroption
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 05, 2009, 01:06 AM
Registered DSer
Kahnx's Avatar
Australia, VIC, Hadfield
Joined Mar 2003
2,862 Posts
CLearly from the responses so far, there is very little experience in building 'a normal bat', and the amount os noseweight depends heavily on how much you build into the tail. My most recent build required the entire battery bay to be filled with lead. On my Superfreak build, I needed only a small square of lead flashing.

I suggest that you undertake the most basic mods to get the most gain for your effort:
1. Replace EPP elevons with balsa and use Step Hinges.
2. Remove reflex from fixed trailing edges.
3. Carbon ribbon or FG rod spars top and bottom to replace central rod.
4. Plenty of layers of Goop and strapping tape everywhere forward of the CoG.
5. CoG initially at 4.9" and be ready to move it back during dial-in flights.

Everything else just adds to the strength, weight and control:
5. Single central fin.
6. CF sub-trailing edge spars.
7. Move servos outward to centre of elevons - shorten pushrods.
8. Move battery back to receiver position for better protection and free battery bay for lead to balance.
9. New stuff covering for super slippery finish.
10 Hitec HS425/645HB servos for strength and power.
... The list can be endless, but each one helps.

Heavy Bats fly amaxingly well in light conditions. They fly very very well in big air. Do as many mods as you think you can - you wont regret it.

Roger.
Kahnx is online now Find More Posts by Kahnx
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Category Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Air Surfer = Wind Rider Ming Scratchbuilt Indoor and Micro Models 19 Aug 04, 2004 04:49 AM
Wind Rider Ming Foamies (Kits) 8 Feb 29, 2004 09:05 PM