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Old Jul 29, 2009, 04:43 PM
Pedal Power!
lakedude's Avatar
the lake
Joined Oct 2002
1,095 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Real Ira
Some old school marksmanship instructors blame this issue on the transition from 6 shot revolvers to "wonder nines" with 15+ round mags.
Looks like the officers were not using "wonder nines" after all...

http://www.crimenews2000.com/news.php?extend.1107

Quote:
Realizing Anderson had a knife, they opened fire with their .40 caliber pistols...
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Old Jul 29, 2009, 06:39 PM
Low, slow and dirty
maine
Joined Jan 2008
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Sometimes, I think if they hit within 40ft of the target they get qualified
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Old Jul 29, 2009, 10:40 PM
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dll932's Avatar
Euclid Ohio
Joined May 2005
290 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by badaltitude
Such is the simple truth about handguns. Only the most expert of experts can hit their intended target in such a situation. In this situation the murderer was in very close proximity to the victim. Making a decent shot in such a situation without endangering the life of the innocent victim is practically impossible.

The outcome is not surprising given the limits of handguns.

By the way, before the NRA types start howling, I used to shoot handguns extensively. I was quite good with my smith & wesson .22 calibre match pistol (patent dec. 17, 01) but wouldn't even think of trying to hit one of two human beings in close proximity with it.

I never could hit the broad side of a barn with my .38 calibre smith and wesson police revolver.

I got out of the habit of playing with such dangerous toys before the "nines' so popular among the 'gangsta' element became the norm...but as someone has suggested, they are probably harder to handle in an emergency situation than one of the old .38 police specials.

If the policmen in question had dropped their firearms and gang tackled the perp, instead of opening fire with such a woefully inadequate and dangerous tool as a handgun, the murdered lady might still be alive today.

Basically, in the hands of anyone other than the very rare expert, pistols are for jamming into someone's belly and pulling the trigger...or firing into areas where you don't give a rat's behind what catches the bullet....

Now...I await fascinating tales of expert marksmanship from the usual suspects....which i am sure will be exaggerated and NOT apply to life or death situations or firing weapons at a human being.
A great deal of the strength of carrying weapons is deterrence. I know a cop who was royally hacked off about having to draw his gun...for the first time in 27 years!
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Old Jul 29, 2009, 10:44 PM
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badaltitude's Avatar
kentucky
Joined Dec 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dll932
A great deal of the strength of carrying weapons is deterrence. I know a cop who was royally hacked off about having to draw his gun...for the first time in 27 years!
I know one, a Louisville police detective who retired about 5 years ago, who never had to draw his weapon during his entire career...and it wasn't visible.

but he's real big and ugly...maybe that's why.
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Old Jul 29, 2009, 10:46 PM
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dll932's Avatar
Euclid Ohio
Joined May 2005
290 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by badaltitude
I know one, a Louisville police detective who retired about 5 years ago, who never had to draw his weapon during his entire career...and it wasn't visible.

but he's real big and ugly...maybe that's why.
Same principle-deterrence!
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Old Jul 29, 2009, 10:48 PM
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Euclid Ohio
Joined May 2005
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I can tell you all, if MY life depended on the possibility I would have to draw and fire on a daily basis, I'd be at the range WEEKLY. As it is, I WORE OUT a Taurus .38 snub learning to hit with it-I don't know ANY officers who've done similar.
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Old Jul 29, 2009, 10:50 PM
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kentucky
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dll932
Same principle-deterrence!
Maybe that's why I never understood why any grown man would feel the need to carry a firearm. I'm big and ugly too.
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Old Jul 29, 2009, 10:56 PM
'Merica!
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United States, CO, Aurora
Joined Sep 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by badaltitude
Maybe that's why I never understood why any grown man would feel the need to carry a firearm. I'm big and ugly too.
What about grown women, especially if they're petite?
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Old Jul 29, 2009, 11:05 PM
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kentucky
Joined Dec 2003
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Originally Posted by n00b-E
What about grown women, especially if they're petite?
I say give them fragmentation grenades. They are safer than handguns and the deterrent potential is greater as well. They could buy pink ones and wear them as a bangle on a necklace or something.
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Old Jul 30, 2009, 01:21 AM
Not THAT Ira
Real Ira's Avatar
Coupeville, Wa
Joined Jan 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lakedude
Looks like the officers were not using "wonder nines" after all...

http://www.crimenews2000.com/news.php?extend.1107

It was the 9's that started the trend, a large capacity S&W auto just follows it.

Not knocking well armed officers with large capacity auto loaders but I instructed my kids how to shoot with single shot firearms for a reason.
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Old Jul 30, 2009, 02:28 AM
Pedal Power!
lakedude's Avatar
the lake
Joined Oct 2002
1,095 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Real Ira
It was the 9's that started the trend, a large capacity S&W auto just follows it.
I know. I just happened upon the info and decided to update the thread with the additional information. I've wanted a 10mm or similar for a while now, but not bad enough to actually spend the money to get one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Real Ira
Not knocking well armed officers with large capacity auto loaders but I instructed my kids how to shoot with single shot firearms for a reason.
Judging from the outcome of this shooting it looks like you made a wise choice. Maybe you should be in charge of officer weapons training?
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Old Jul 30, 2009, 07:36 AM
St. Boondock
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Joined Aug 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Henley
How did the bear get into your pajamas?
Not sure but I hated having to put holes in them
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Old Jul 30, 2009, 10:16 AM
Not THAT Ira
Real Ira's Avatar
Coupeville, Wa
Joined Jan 2006
4,722 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by lakedude
I know. I just happened upon the info and decided to update the thread with the additional information. I've wanted a 10mm or similar for a while now, but not bad enough to actually spend the money to get one.


Judging from the outcome of this shooting it looks like you made a wise choice. Maybe you should be in charge of officer weapons training?

Wouldn't touch that job with a stick.

While in the Coast Guard reserve most of my shipmates were also cops and most of them were total jackasses. It seemed to me to be a combo of that job being a draw to jackasses and the pressures of the job turning all but the most decent and caring types into jackasses over time. It takes someone with real personal integrity to not let a job like that get to them.

We had to re-qualify on several different firearms at least every 6 months.
Over the years there were several "incidents" that resulted in injuries.
All but one of the 5 I recall happened to cops and I attribute it to a "already know it all" attitude towards the instructors.

The worst "incident" was when a reservist who was a Washington State Patrolman propped a loaded 12 gauge pump against the bench pointed up, round in the chamber, firing pin under spring tension, safety off.
Someone bumped the bench and the weapon fell over and discharged it's chambered round of 00 Buckshot into a cement curb and the pellets all glanced upward into the nimrods crotch area.
Bet he won't ever do THAT again.
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Old Jul 30, 2009, 11:08 AM
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dll932's Avatar
Euclid Ohio
Joined May 2005
290 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by badaltitude
I say give them fragmentation grenades. They are safer than handguns and the deterrent potential is greater as well. They could buy pink ones and wear them as a bangle on a necklace or something.
Never work-you know girls can't throw...
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Old Jul 30, 2009, 11:11 AM
Suspended Account
Ohio
Joined Aug 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dll932
Never work-you know girls can't throw...
or pitch....
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