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Old Jul 28, 2009, 10:52 PM
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lakedude's Avatar
the lake
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What kind of lousy marksmanship training are they giving to cops get these days?

2 officers fired 9 shots (10 if you count the Tazer). No (none, zero) shots hit the knife weilding suspect. One shot hit the victim in the head!

With friends like that who needs enemies?

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Jill Ulmer, 26, had a restraining order in place against her ex-boyfriend, Ricky Anderson. On Friday, May 26, Jill placed a call to 911 to report that Ricky was in violation of that order. He had been harassing her and was outside in the parking lot. When officers Ken Willyard and Cpl. Chris Scherrey arrived on scene, they saw a “dark, shadowy figure” enter the apartment before slamming the door. Then, the screaming started. The officers attempted to forcibly enter the apartment, but were unable to get past the heavy-duty steel door. After one of the officers busted out the living room window, they observed Ricky punching Jill and attempted to tase him. The taser failed to hit it’s mark. It was about then that the officers noticed the knife in his hand.

One officer stated that Ricky could be seen “bobbing up and down” as he repeatedly stabbed Jill, kinda like that Whack-A-Mole game. They drew their weapons and attempted to shoot over the couch at the suspect, and continued to shoot until Ricky abruptly ceased with the stabbing. A total of nine shots were fired. The officers thought Ricky had been hit. However, when they entered the apartment, they found him sitting on the floor next to Jill’s body, a knife nearby. He had escaped the bullets unscathed. Jill wasn’t quite so lucky. The ME’s preliminary report indicated the cause of death was “25-30 stab wounds and a gunshot wound to the head.”
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Old Jul 28, 2009, 10:54 PM
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Haha...oh what a crock.
I'm not even trained in the least, and I've fired a gun... 9/10 of my first shots with a firearm EVER were bullseyes. 2" bullseyes at 30 yards with a Glock.
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Old Jul 28, 2009, 10:58 PM
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Originally Posted by thermlin'
Haha...oh what a crock.
I'm not even trained in the least, and I've fired a gun... 9/10 of my first shots with a firearm EVER were bullseyes. 2" bullseyes at 30 yards with a Glock.
The real "crock" is that the suspect pleaded "not guilty". Not sure what the point of that is.
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Old Jul 28, 2009, 11:01 PM
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Originally Posted by lakedude
The real "crock" is that the suspect pleaded "not guilty". Not sure what the point of that is.
He might as well. As lenient as our judicial system is, he'll probably get his sentence halved for not pleading guilty. Ridiculous...
I want to totally re-do the judicial system. Who wants to vote for me? My party is the "American Party". I haven't made the actual party yet, so you'll all have to wait a few years to get away from the left-right political bull bickering.
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Old Jul 29, 2009, 12:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thermlin'
Haha...oh what a crock.
I'm not even trained in the least, and I've fired a gun... 9/10 of my first shots with a firearm EVER were bullseyes. 2" bullseyes at 30 yards with a Glock.

As if your paper target and a life and death situation are one in the same.
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Old Jul 29, 2009, 02:21 AM
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Originally Posted by BRETT65
As if your paper target and a life and death situation are one in the same.
I've never been called on having anything but nerves of steel. I'm not exaggerating.
And at any rate, most cops have at least a few seconds of "drop your weapon" or whatever before they're even in a position to shoot rightfully...plenty of time to line up a good shot.
9 shots and no hits is just ridiculous...I'd be embarrassed if I was trained that much.
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Old Jul 29, 2009, 02:29 AM
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a long time ago, a town near me had a guy with knife threatening the cops that came to the domestic dispute scene.

when he came at the cops he was hit 9/10 shots.....

the results a huge uprising outside of the courthouse with people holding signs saying 10 shots too many... along with the chanting.

I am starting to think cops are damned if they do, damned if they don't.


Personally, if perp has a weapon, I think cops should shoot first ask questions after.
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Old Jul 29, 2009, 02:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Metieval
a long time ago, a town near me had a guy with knife threatening the cops that came to the domestic dispute scene.

when he came at the cops he was hit 9/10 shots.....

the results a huge uprising outside of the courthouse with people holding signs saying 10 shots too many... along with the chanting.

I am starting to think cops are damned if they do, damned if they don't.


Personally, if perp has a weapon, I think cops should shoot first ask questions after.
I fully agree. Maybe if he's dropping it...give him a second or two. But if he shows no signs of retreat, fire away, boys!
We let cops have guns for a reason, right?

Funny because we've disagreed in so many other posts.
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Old Jul 29, 2009, 04:13 AM
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Originally Posted by thermlin'
I fully agree. Maybe if he's dropping it...give him a second or two. But if he shows no signs of retreat, fire away, boys!
We let cops have guns for a reason, right?

Funny because we've disagreed in so many other posts.
Funny part being I could be swayed to see either side of this issue. For now that is my opinion though. Probably always will be but I'm not convicted enough to push it.

I didn't research the story in OP, but from the post here the victim had a gunshot wound to the head??? That is bad and sad if perp only had a knife
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Old Jul 29, 2009, 05:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thermlin'
I've never been called on having anything but nerves of steel. I'm not exaggerating.
And at any rate, most cops have at least a few seconds of "drop your weapon" or whatever before they're even in a position to shoot rightfully...plenty of time to line up a good shot.
9 shots and no hits is just ridiculous...I'd be embarrassed if I was trained that much.

Mate I've got a drill for you.... You'll have your 9 mil G.... and I'll use my little ole S/W 22. auto.... I will also guarantee that you will not hit anywhere close to a bullseye at whatever distance.. becuase you'll be to busy trying to keep you head down.... and if you don't believe me... will you get the picture...


and if you thing I don't know what I'mma talkin about will this vietnam vet can rock N roll....
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Old Jul 29, 2009, 05:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Metieval
a long time ago, a town near me had a guy with knife threatening the cops that came to the domestic dispute scene.

when he came at the cops he was hit 9/10 shots.....

the results a huge uprising outside of the courthouse with people holding signs saying 10 shots too many... along with the chanting.

I am starting to think cops are damned if they do, damned if they don't.


Personally, if perp has a weapon, I think cops should shoot first ask questions after.

If the suspect is armed with a knife, the grand jury would prefer that there are powder burns on his front side.

DT56,
Who has been there and almost done that.
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Old Jul 29, 2009, 05:56 AM
PLD
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The trouble with letting an assailant with a knife get that close is that once they are within that range and even if you do shoot them they can still inflict a great deal of injury to you. There are several cases that I have memories of where such things happened and despite putting several rounds into the oncoming knife holder a couple of officers were still stabbed multiple times.
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Old Jul 29, 2009, 06:10 AM
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It's all well and good to say - aim - fire - etc but when someone is coming at you it's not that easy at all to get one good shot off (unless you have a machine gun.....that works)!
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Old Jul 29, 2009, 06:20 AM
PLD
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Enginet,

Even with a machine gun it would seem it's still quite plausible to miss. There was an Aussie war vetran who seemed to avoid bullets for a critical moment in his career (was awarded a VC for his efforts).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Kenna

Quote:
The enemy machine gun immediately returned Private Kenna's fire and with such accuracy that bullets actually passed between his arms and his body. Undeterred, he remained completely exposed and continued to fire at the enemy until his magazine was exhausted. Still making a target of himself, Private Kenna discarded his Bren gun and called for a rifle. Despite the intense machine gun fire, he seized the rifle and, with amazing coolness, killed the gunner with his first round.
That's some insane coolness there - or just sheer mental 'lockout'.
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Old Jul 29, 2009, 06:44 AM
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Originally Posted by pldaniels
The trouble with letting an assailant with a knife get that close is that once they are within that range and even if you do shoot them they can still inflict a great deal of injury to you. There are several cases that I have memories of where such things happened and despite putting several rounds into the oncoming knife holder a couple of officers were still stabbed multiple times.
I know!
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