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Old Dec 20, 2010, 10:00 AM
It wasn't me...
DanSavage's Avatar
Trabuco Canyon, CA
Joined Nov 2000
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Originally Posted by killickb View Post
St Martin, with the instructions/plans provided it would be hard to miss a vital structural ommision or error however I get your point, sometimes I can't see the wood for the trees after spending a few hours on one assembly. Right now I wish I could get a set of your inlet ducts because I am stuck --- see below!

DAN, the instruction booklet I have references patterns for the inlet ducts within the manual --- but they aren't there neither does your on-line manual show them?? However your on-line plans show patterns for FWD INLET / INLET DOUBLERS / INLET TRIPLERS etc. Are these the patterns for the Bristol board inlet ducting? My plans (two sheets) DO NOT have these patterns so I am in a build hold until I can get them, could you please forward the bottom part of the plan that has these patterns?
Hi Bill,

Sorry about that. Here's the templates you're missing.

Dan
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Old Dec 20, 2010, 10:03 AM
It wasn't me...
DanSavage's Avatar
Trabuco Canyon, CA
Joined Nov 2000
4,572 Posts
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Originally Posted by killickb View Post
DAN, forgot to ask --- you sent four sheets of Bristol Board with kit, is this enough for inlets,doublers and triplers? Which surface do the triplers attach to? Will I need to use a non water based adhesive to bond doublers to primary inlet patterns and triplers to doublers? Concerned that they will warp during drying if using Titebond or similar?
Yes. There is enough Bristol paper for all the paper parts you need. The triplers glue to the outside of the doublers, which are glued to the outside of the inlet ducts, themselves.

You can use any type of adhesive you want. I used Titebond carpenter's glue. If you are going to use a water-based adhesive, make sure you only apply thin coats otherwise it will warp.
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Old Dec 20, 2010, 04:23 PM
Big gov never Works
St. Martin's Avatar
Skunk Water, Rhode Island
Joined Jul 2002
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Originally Posted by killickb View Post
Ah yes forgot that you built yours lightweight for bungee launching. I'm stuck at 90mm now but thank you for offering, hopefully Dan will read this soon and I can get back on track. By the way what weight did yours come out at, ready to launch, I have a feeling I am putting on too many ounces already.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...&postcount=587

Fuzz
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Old Dec 20, 2010, 09:04 PM
killickb
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The Villages. Florida
Joined Jan 2005
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Dan, thanks for templates but I am going to have to trial and error using printer and copier to get them them printed to correct dimensions. I know what the dimension is between my fuse formers so can use that to determine when printout is correct --- sure would have been nice to have actual full size patterns though! Trust the next guy will get plans with the templates on them as shown on-line. You might want to add a few inches of an inch or metric scale to the plan, this would allow plan to model dimensional verification.

Have already been using Titebond 2 for some of the assembly (wing skins etc) but it is water soluble until cured so does cause balsa or cardboard to curl. As noted in your instructions I will watch it when adding doublers to primary ductwork if I use Titebond. I did re read and found the doubler/tripler info in my instruction booklet. Is there that much suction that the originals collapsed?

Thanks, Barry K.
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Old Dec 20, 2010, 11:55 PM
It wasn't me...
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Trabuco Canyon, CA
Joined Nov 2000
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Originally Posted by killickb View Post
Dan, thanks for templates but I am going to have to trial and error using printer and copier to get them them printed to correct dimensions. I know what the dimension is between my fuse formers so can use that to determine when printout is correct --- sure would have been nice to have actual full size patterns though! Trust the next guy will get plans with the templates on them as shown on-line. You might want to add a few inches of an inch or metric scale to the plan, this would allow plan to model dimensional verification.

Have already been using Titebond 2 for some of the assembly (wing skins etc) but it is water soluble until cured so does cause balsa or cardboard to curl. As noted in your instructions I will watch it when adding doublers to primary ductwork if I use Titebond. I did re read and found the doubler/tripler info in my instruction booklet. Is there that much suction that the originals collapsed?

Thanks, Barry K.
The templates in the PDF file I posted should already be full-size and should not need to be re-sized. edit: I should also add the size of the paper templates is not critical other than being too small. They are meant to overlap the balsa and any excess is trimmed away after the glue dries.

I didn't want to take a chance with collapsing the inlet ducts, which is why I added the tripler. The doubler by itself might work okay. I couldn't say for sure.

Dan
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Old Dec 23, 2010, 02:39 PM
killickb
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The Villages. Florida
Joined Jan 2005
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Here is the airframe so far, nothing unique but at least the inlets are done!!
It is also beginning to look like an F-4 so not long until I can make jet noises as I move it around the workshop. I also think I owe the boss some time based on what I have been putting into this model so will have to shelve until 2011 at this point ---- besides it is still flying weather here!
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Old Dec 23, 2010, 04:25 PM
Big gov never Works
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Skunk Water, Rhode Island
Joined Jul 2002
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Look's nice, Barry. Now comes the fun part..sheeting!

Fuzz
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Old Dec 23, 2010, 06:05 PM
Da' Cajun
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Lake Charles, Louisiana
Joined Jun 2009
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That does look nice B.

I love sheeting, the reward for a well built frame.
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Old Dec 27, 2010, 10:22 AM
It wasn't me...
DanSavage's Avatar
Trabuco Canyon, CA
Joined Nov 2000
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Quote:
Originally Posted by killickb View Post
Here is the airframe so far, nothing unique but at least the inlets are done!!
It is also beginning to look like an F-4 so not long until I can make jet noises as I move it around the workshop. I also think I owe the boss some time based on what I have been putting into this model so will have to shelve until 2011 at this point ---- besides it is still flying weather here!
Yes, I agree with everyone else. Your model is starting to look really good.

It won't be long now.

Dan
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Old Dec 27, 2010, 05:42 PM
Big gov never Works
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Skunk Water, Rhode Island
Joined Jul 2002
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I think he should be brought into the "family". Tell him the rules!

Fuzz
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Old Jan 03, 2011, 06:11 PM
killickb
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The Villages. Florida
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I saw "The Rules" in an earlier post, not sure about this family !!!

More importantly see attached pics. What is wrong here? I can fix but either a cut file is incorrect or the glass exhaust cone is wrong? You can see that I have the exhaust as close to tail boom surface as possible --- it is on the edge of fuse curvature --- so have used up all of the adjustment possible. Tailhook is held from seating by the glasswork. All else going well, sheeting almost complete, slow you say, well there are golf games to be played !!!
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Old Jan 03, 2011, 07:44 PM
It wasn't me...
DanSavage's Avatar
Trabuco Canyon, CA
Joined Nov 2000
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Originally Posted by killickb View Post
I saw "The Rules" in an earlier post, not sure about this family !!!

More importantly see attached pics. What is wrong here? I can fix but either a cut file is incorrect or the glass exhaust cone is wrong? You can see that I have the exhaust as close to tail boom surface as possible --- it is on the edge of fuse curvature --- so have used up all of the adjustment possible. Tailhook is held from seating by the glasswork. All else going well, sheeting almost complete, slow you say, well there are golf games to be played !!!
With the fuselage sitting flat on the bench, is the stab mount parallel (longitudinally) to the bench top? The tail boom looks like it's angled up in the photos you posted.

Here's the photos of this area from the manual. (Photos #208 & 212). The last one is Daren's F-4.

Dan
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Last edited by DanSavage; Jan 03, 2011 at 09:07 PM.
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Old Jan 03, 2011, 09:27 PM
killickb
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The Villages. Florida
Joined Jan 2005
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Dan, just checked that out. I have about 1/16 variation between l.e. of stab and t.e. of stab when fuse is flat on surface. This is giving me a positive incidence on stab with respect to fuse bottom which looks like it is also the wing decalage. Hope this isn't to bad if it supposed to be zero/zero. Without working it out mathmatically (which I will) I suspect less than 1 degree positive on the tailplane.
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Old Jan 03, 2011, 09:43 PM
killickb
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The Villages. Florida
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Dan, just checked incidences on the plan and it looks like about 2 degree positive on the wing. I always draw chord lines on the plan for wing/tailplane and you had drawn the wing chordline so ignoring my Clark ''Y" section and assuming flat plate I still have a small positive with respect to wing, that you do not, that means that my boom is down if anything? Am going to try and line up fuse over plan now.
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Old Jan 03, 2011, 10:12 PM
killickb
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The Villages. Florida
Joined Jan 2005
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Ok, overlaid fuse on plan, lined up bottom of fuse with plan and using triangle lined up the tailplane seat (EM) with plan and it is almost perfect. However I note that although my B10 is the right length below EM (per plan) my B11 is about 3/8 shorter than plan so that the bottom sheeting of the boom is at a greater angle than the tailhook angle. This sheeting is not glued on yet so can add some shims etc to get it right. So it is not that the boom is at an incorrect angle but that it is to short (vertically) at B-11, no idea what happened here. I am going to refinish the boom, use calipers to transfer correct dimensions from plan to balsa and if neccessary make a new tailhook to suit.

Another point you might add to instructions is to make cardboard or ply radius patterns for the fuse corners at each bulkhead -- gives something to sand to.
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