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Old Jul 16, 2009, 03:37 PM
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Pleasant Hill CA
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Bagged VS Molded ships .

This is continued from the Stobel thread.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1073729


Some of the questions that came up.

Why are the US builders not doing molded?
Are bagged and Molded equal?
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Old Jul 16, 2009, 03:59 PM
Where is the lift?
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USA, AZ, Phoenix
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If I could get a molded wing like the Stobel2 and or Salpeter for the price of a Blaster2 I would be all over it. For me that is not gonna happen anytime soon. I do prefer the Blaster2 over the Vandel or XP type bagged wing DLGs. For the most part it is an ARF and it does a very good job, especially for the price. The big downside of course is its vulnerability to physical damage. The Stobel2 I have had in my hands and it appears that it will be able to handle much more abuse than the Blaster2. I have no issues with bagged wing DLG's. I would be flying them if the Blaster2 was not available. I do think that performance wise, the molded wings are more likely to prevail.

Charlie
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Old Jul 16, 2009, 03:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moto0013
This is continued from the Stobel thread.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1073729


Why are the US builders not doing molded?
Are bagged and Molded equal?

IMHO,

Why are the US builders not doing molded?

Because it is too expensive to do the molds (no profit), materials cost too much, too time consuming, the market is too small, if a new design comes out a "Chinese" firm, or the like, copies it and makes it cheaper, and designs are changing fast.

Are bagged and Molded equal?

If the builders take the time to insure accuracy of airfoils, then None.


Besides, I do not want to make a small fortune from my currently large fortune.
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Old Jul 16, 2009, 04:04 PM
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I was talking to a few of the guys in Europe that do the molded stuff.Not all of them are using high cost cnc to make the plugs and molds.Some are using old fashioned hard work to hand shape the stuff. So it can be done cheap at a high labor cost.
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Old Jul 16, 2009, 04:05 PM
Turn down for what?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moto0013
Why are the US builders not doing molded?
I think Mattias kind of hit (or hinted) at this in the Stobel thread. What about taking existing molded planes and pulling molds off of them? Other than the I guess ethical/moral/pride issues is that feasable?
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Old Jul 16, 2009, 04:11 PM
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I think the US guys get hung up on cost .We think in terms of cnc and an aluminum mold.Which is the best , but not the only way..
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Old Jul 16, 2009, 04:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moto0013
I think the US guys get hung up on cost .We think in terms of cnc and an aluminum mold.Which is the best , but not the only way..

Quite true. However, do they do a wing plug via CNC, or do they actaully carve it? The eliptical wings might be a bit difficult and time consuming if done by hand. As for the mold, it really is no different than that for a pod, etc, and I am capable of that.
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Old Jul 16, 2009, 04:29 PM
A witty saying proves nothing.
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This is a good thread on FlyQuiet (UK) about Richard Swindell's progression into making molds, including buying and setting up a Chinese CNC machine.

I was amazed at how fast he progressed to making good molds. I'm not sure what his background in CNC, etc. was, but I got the impression most of it was new to him.

http://www.flyquiet.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=1421.0

Kevin
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Old Jul 16, 2009, 04:30 PM
aka Mr.Side-Winder
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Yep,
Us 'US' guys ARE Hung up on the money...
If you go to contests, your going to need at least 2 but preferably 3 planes..... 3 TOP end EURO Moldies.... 3 grand + radio gear, so maybe $3,500 at least......
On the other hand....
3 nicely built US bagged planes... 'MUCH' less than half that With radio gear!!

And we can change our designs, airfoils.. etc Much faster than they can...

Maybe us guys in the States attend more contests, and therefore go through planes faster.. I don't know.. Someone chime in here..

I'll wear out 2 planes in a season with no problem, ( mostly practice flying but a lot of contests as well).
And will want at least 2 fresh ones for the next season to be competitive...

Glad this moved over to an appropriate thread for this.. The "Stobel V2 is ready",,,, thread was to show off their work of ART.. I have nothing but praise for what they have done .. BAR NONE.. It's a beautiful plane worth every penny!! I would love to have one myself...

Just my thoughts

Popcorn is Ready....
just pulled from the microwave...
Let's have it boys... Don't hold back, let's get this out on the table.. !!

Great Thread!!
Moto,Thanks for moving it here....

Jeff
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Old Jul 16, 2009, 04:33 PM
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Norway
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Wing plugs are made by CNC, but you could use a cheaper material that mills faster, at the cost of accuracy. MDF or the "Cheap" ebaboards (around 400$ per meter) These will have to be lightly sanded, and painted with 2k paint, then you handpolish to perfection, and pull the mould. I`ve made my F3F moulds this way.. www.ksjohansen.blogspot.com

I think a complete DLG mouldset is doable for around 3000$ excluding labor.
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Old Jul 16, 2009, 04:39 PM
Chuck 'Em and Chase 'Em
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So let me understand this, the CNC mold does not come out of the machine perfect?

There is some hand work that needs to be done prior to pulling a part?

Can you show us some before and after shots?

Can a completely finished mold be pulled from the machine and if it can, how much would that cost versus hand tuning?

thanks

Very interesting discussion....

Frank
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Old Jul 16, 2009, 04:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Winder
Maybe us guys in the States attend more contests, and therefore go through planes faster.. I don't know.. Someone chime in here..

Jeff

Jeff,

I think you make an excellent point here. While we may have many more local contests, I think the flying fields differ considerably and take their toll on planes faster.

If you look at Poway, it is hard packed clay, really rough, may have killer hard weed stubs etc, and is extremely dusty. Other west and near west places (like AZ or NM, certainly here in NV) have dry expanses that are like sandpaper.

However, looking at Euro photos, or some Midwest, or East Coast flying site photos, there appears to be much more green. I'd would rather land out in green trees or bushes than dreaded sagebrush. Obvosuly we design for durability as well.

BTW, How long to these moldies last in the Western US as compared to elsewhere. Or is that the top pilots cycle their planes out of their arsenal as they become damaged, while the Euro pilots fly the same planes and become expert with their planes?

Inquiring pilots want to know. LOL
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Old Jul 16, 2009, 04:45 PM
Where is the lift?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Winder
On the other hand....
3 nicely built US bagged planes... 'MUCH' less than half that With radio gear!!
Great Thread!!
Moto,Thanks for moving it here....Jeff

Lol, BS flag only for the exaggeration!

I am somewhat ignorant, where do I get competition bagged wing gliders for less than $500 each with radio gear?

Charlie
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Old Jul 16, 2009, 04:45 PM
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Quite some time before this thread was started I made the decision to go molded. For my self, the process takes time but not much in the way of money. There is no need for CNC aluminum molds. If you have the hands its not that big a deal. Look for the new molded Legend in a few months. I will be starting the plugs after I finish the current round of gliders thats in the works right now.

Dave
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Old Jul 16, 2009, 04:47 PM
Chuck 'Em and Chase 'Em
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Taboo - $450,
4 D47 = $80
Rx $40 +
Total $570


OK so it is close. If the XP-5 was still in production, it might be closer. The Falken might make it even closer.
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