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Old Oct 20, 2003, 06:39 PM
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Norfolk, England
Joined Sep 2001
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Robert,
Congratulations on your first flight with the N11. Your groundlooping problems come as a bit of a surprise . My one, and Robert Hoffman's, if I recall correctly, both tracked fairly straight. They were about 1 1/2 lb lighter than yours though. Could there be a link, do you think?

Pete (totally Un-horrified)
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Old Oct 20, 2003, 06:45 PM
Registered User
Norfolk, England
Joined Sep 2001
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Robert,
I've just remembered, the only time she did groundloop badly was the day I tried a standard, 7.2 volt 600 in her. More power makes her much nicer. That day I got so fed up with shedding tyres that I took them off and let her roll on the rims. Okay on grass, not so good on a runway

Pete
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Old Oct 20, 2003, 07:27 PM
Ahhgh! Not ANOTHER new plane!
Robert Stinson's Avatar
San Diego, CA
Joined Dec 2001
2,767 Posts
My guess that the ground-looping has a combination of 2 causes: 1, the small rudder doesn't give much control until the plane picks up speed, and 2, my nervousness about letting it pick up speed!

The actual takeoff worked by my keeping up elevator (more pressure on the tailskid) until ground speed had picked up. Peter, more power, a faster acceleration, would probably do the same.

The plane tracks beautifully through the sky. I actually had some up elevator trimmed in. That reassured me that my worst fear, a tail-heaviness, wasn't present.

I also put in a bit of right trim, because as soon as it left the ground the first time, it rolled left. It's possible that the trim adjustment will allow it to taxi straighter...all in all, a really unique kit - larger than most nowadays, which I prefer.
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Old Oct 20, 2003, 08:49 PM
Ahhgh! Not ANOTHER new plane!
Robert Stinson's Avatar
San Diego, CA
Joined Dec 2001
2,767 Posts
Pete:

A pound and a half difference? Sheesh! English pounds aren't heavier than American ones, are they?

The only things that didn't come out of the kit box were the Astroflight 15G, Some Williams wheels, and the covering...and of course, the battery.

I know it's buried in the past posts, but what motor/battery setup is in your's & Bob's?
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Last edited by Robert Stinson; Oct 21, 2003 at 11:34 PM.
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Old Oct 21, 2003, 09:57 AM
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Norfolk, England
Joined Sep 2001
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Robert,
I know both mine and Bob's model used the Graupner Speed 600 Race 8.4 volt motor, fitted to an Olympus belt drive. Mine ran on 8 cells, and I think Bob used 9, both CP2400s.
As regards wheels, I used the kit wheels, but I can't remember if Bob used Williams wheels or not. If I remember correctly, my model came out at 68 oz - 4 1/4 lb.

Obviously, much of your extra weight comes from the additional cells and the Williams wheels, probably about 10 or 11 oz, so the rest must be the covering.

Pete
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Old Oct 21, 2003, 11:33 PM
Ahhgh! Not ANOTHER new plane!
Robert Stinson's Avatar
San Diego, CA
Joined Dec 2001
2,767 Posts
Pete,

Duh, duh, duh! Stupid me! Such a large weight disparity was really puzzling me, so I re-weighed my plane. I just couldn't imagine mine could fly so well being so much heavier than yours.

Doh!

It's exactly 3lbs w/o battery, battery pack is 1 lb 11 oz, so we're talking FOUR lbs 11 oz, not five & 11! That's 75 oz., 7 more than yours. NOW it makes sense. Given the extra 4 cells, the wheels and the covering, that's not much more.

If I can find a suitable brushless motor that can turn a 12x8 prop on less than 12 cells, I'm gonna go for it.
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Old Oct 22, 2003, 02:48 AM
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East Anglia, UK
Joined Sep 2002
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Plenty of brushless will do that nicely. Just depends on how fast you want it turned.

AXI 2820/10 on 10 cells and 12x8 will probably pull it vertical. 8 cells probably safer

Or AXI 2820/12.. Thats pretty near the mark on 10 cells - estimated 49 oz thrust and 50mph pitch speed. turning 6800 RPM appx.

See http://www.modelmotors.cz/index.php?...id_odkazy=m_ac
for details. Castle creations controller good for 45-50A is indicated.
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Old Oct 22, 2003, 08:27 AM
Ahhgh! Not ANOTHER new plane!
Robert Stinson's Avatar
San Diego, CA
Joined Dec 2001
2,767 Posts
Vintage1

Thanks for the info, expecially the website. I'd seen the stats on the 2820/12, but hadn't seen it matched up with a 12x8 until I checked the site.

The plane needs the large diameter prop to look scale and to overcome the fuselage's large frontal area.
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Old Oct 22, 2003, 09:09 AM
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East Anglia, UK
Joined Sep 2002
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Absolutely. You can knock back on cell count to get the RPM down as well or use the /10 motor. That, or a belt drive combo http://www.modelairtech.com/combos.html has got to be the quitest and most de luxe option really.
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Old Oct 23, 2003, 11:00 AM
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Jim Ryan's Avatar
Cincinnati, OH USA
Joined Oct 2000
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I just love the Bebe. Peter, is this a kit that's available on this side of the Pond?

Geared S400, right?

Jeez, yet another winter project....

Jim
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Old Oct 23, 2003, 11:09 AM
Designing on the edge
Bengtson's Avatar
United States, OR, Portland
Joined Mar 2001
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Jim,
That kit was sold thru www.AerodromeRC.com and is no longer available. However, the plans still are available including a laser cutting parts file. Check out our web site for details. BTW, it is 49" and for a geared S600 BB or 600 Race.

Kurt
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Old Oct 23, 2003, 05:29 PM
Registered User
Norfolk, England
Joined Sep 2001
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Jim,
I am truly flattered that you are interested in my N11 design. Whilst Kurt offers a plan for the 600 version, I still have a copy of the 400 size plan that started this thread.
Also, there is a distinct possibility of a 400 size kit sometime in the New Year. Hopefully, it will be easily available over there via Kanata Aircraft Models of Canada - www.kan.on.ca/

Pete
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Old Oct 23, 2003, 06:02 PM
Designing on the edge
Bengtson's Avatar
United States, OR, Portland
Joined Mar 2001
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Jim,
Sorry, I really missed the boat here. I thought that this whole thread was on the 49" Peter Rake design.

Kurt
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Old Oct 23, 2003, 09:22 PM
Visitor from Reality
United States, VA, Arlington
Joined Dec 1996
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Idle covering thought. A while back, someone sent me a scrap of "Oracover". This is definitely lighter than dear old Solartex, but the cream was somewhat more see-through than 'tex.

However, have never seen this stuff on the right edge of "The Pond" or recall seeing it advertised in the Brit rags I still get over here.

Failing memory suggests my scrap came from Holland!

If only Nieuport hadn't insisted on putting their mainwheels so far forward

D
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Old Oct 23, 2003, 10:44 PM
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Gerald's Avatar
Joined May 2000
3,339 Posts
Quote:
Originally posted by Dereck
Idle covering thought. A while back, someone sent me a scrap of "Oracover". This is definitely lighter than dear old Solartex, but the cream was somewhat more see-through than 'tex.

However, have never seen this stuff on the right edge of "The Pond" or recall seeing it advertised in the Brit rags I still get over here.

Failing memory suggests my scrap came from Holland!

If only Nieuport hadn't insisted on putting their mainwheels so far forward

D
Oracover is sold as "Ultracote" over here . The wrapper says Ultracote but the backing paper has Oracover printed on it. Sure you aren't talking about "Oratex"? Oracover is film whereas Oratex is fabric. I haven't seen Oratex over here.
I used Ultracote "lite" transparent clear on my PR 36" Camel and then airbrushed it to color with acrylic. Came out as light as Litespan I believe. I've used the Litespan before but don't really like it.
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