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Old Jul 02, 2009, 01:11 PM
Modeller Dilettante
Vancouver
Joined Sep 2005
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Thinner for Nitrate dope

Hi,
I'm planning on covering a model with silkspan and Sig nitrate dope, then finishing it with Brodak butyrate coloured dope. Problem is, I can't find any nitrate dope thinner locally nor can I find a retailer willing to ship to my location.
Can I use Brodak butyrate dope thinner to thin Sig nitrate dope? I've asked at a local shop but the responses were mixed. If I can't thin nitrate with butyrate thinner, can anyone suggest another thinning product that is compatible with Sig nitrate dope? Will standard lacquer thinner from a hardware store work?

Before I buy a bunch of thinners and test it out myself, I thought I'd see what has worked for others.

Cheers and thanks.
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Old Jul 02, 2009, 02:59 PM
Zor
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Ontario,Canada
Joined Feb 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markusj
Hi,
I'm planning on covering a model with silkspan and Sig nitrate dope, then finishing it with Brodak butyrate coloured dope. Problem is, I can't find any nitrate dope thinner locally nor can I find a retailer willing to ship to my location.
Can I use Brodak butyrate dope thinner to thin Sig nitrate dope? I've asked at a local shop but the responses were mixed. If I can't thin nitrate with butyrate thinner, can anyone suggest another thinning product that is compatible with Sig nitrate dope? Will standard lacquer thinner from a hardware store work?

Before I buy a bunch of thinners and test it out myself, I thought I'd see what has worked for others.

Cheers and thanks.
markus,

Do not complicate your life with dope thinner.

Sig sells dope via the local hobby stores and to my knowledge has only one type (formulation) of thinner used for both nitrate and butyrate.

The label says "For use with Sig supercoat (butyrate), lite coat and nitrate dope". It contains MIBK, MEK, NBA, and E3EP.

I have used it to thin both nitrate and butyrate in my finishng of my Skybolt.

Browse this thread for the last couple of months.

I also use Randolph thinner. It contains toluene, acetone, methyl ethyl ketone, methyl isobutyl ketone, isopropyl alcohol, diacetone alcohol, propylene glycol monomethyl ether acetate.

It also works nicely with both nitrate and butyrate.

I also bought acetone at the hardware store and tried it by itself with the Sig dope. I did not see any problems.

Always use the minimum thinner needed for the job like brushing or spraying.

All this material must be used with caution. Do not breath vapors; use good efficient FORCED ventilation.

Make your life easy .

Zor
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Last edited by Zor; Jul 02, 2009 at 03:02 PM. Reason: food corrected to good
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Old Jul 03, 2009, 06:57 AM
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Dope thinner works for thinning the various types of dopes and cleaning the brushes used to apply them. You need no other type of dope thinner.
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Old Jul 03, 2009, 07:18 AM
Zor
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So many questions never answered

Quote:
Originally Posted by markusj

Hi,
>
>
>
Can I use Brodak butyrate dope thinner to thin Sig nitrate dope?

Nothng to lose trying it.

I've asked at a local shop but the responses were mixed. If I can't thin nitrate with butyrate thinner, can anyone suggest another thinning product that is compatible with Sig nitrate dope? Will standard lacquer thinner from a hardware store work?

I have both, dope thinner and lacquer thinner.
Logically I thinned dope with dope thinner since I have it.
I did not try to thin dope with lacquer thinner.

Use the dope thinner you have or buy a quart of acetone (about $5.00).

BTW Sig dope is so thin it can be easily brushed on without dilution.

Before I buy a bunch of thinners and test it out myself, I thought I'd see what has worked for others.

Cheers and thanks.
Hope the above helps.

Zor
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Old Jul 03, 2009, 07:26 AM
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East Anglia, UK
Joined Sep 2002
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Most thinners are largely MEK (Methyl Ethyl Ketone) or acetone, or a combination. Oh theres one other common solvent. What is it?

XYLENE!!

Now I forgot ALL of my organic chemistry long before it became useful.. but I think the salient points of a polymer solvent - which is what dope is, a polymer dissolved in a solvent are..

- whether it dissolves, rather than reacts, with the polymer
- whether it dries too fast, lowering the temperature and causing high build up of moisture- hence 'blooming' (acetone dries DAMNED fast).
- whether or not its deemed safe, or has other implications beyond its actual function as a solvent.

I keep standard dope thinners and acetone as standard. But I haven't done any serious doping for years (do you remember the 60's?) but I would suggest that you play with whatever you can get in the celullose thinners line, after reading the tin fiirst. Oh and dont buy either at a model shop.

MEK is often used to 'solvent weld' PVC pipes. Acetione is used to clean glass fibre layups a lot, and in an emergency, Nail Varnish remover is usually pure acetone..and nail vanish is colored dope at that..

I am not sure but I think xylene is the MOST common dope solvent here in the UK. Least ways that's what it says on my tin..
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Old Jul 03, 2009, 12:05 PM
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LesUyeda's Avatar
San Diego, California
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I usually use a good quality of automotive laquer thinner. Works for me on Nitrate and Butyrate dope.

Les
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Old Jul 24, 2009, 11:05 PM
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Steve85's Avatar
Canada, ON, Kingston
Joined Mar 2004
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I'm thinning Sig nitrate dope with acetone I bought at Home Depot. Works great and is only $10 for a litre.

Steve
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Old Jul 25, 2009, 09:31 AM
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Martin Irvine's Avatar
Canada, ON, Kingston
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I prefer laquer thinner for nitrate, cheap and doesn't evaporate as fast as acetone, (which works well too). This is important for me as I brush my initial, (nitrate) coats so like a little time to let it level out without dragging or brush marks.

Martin
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Old Jul 25, 2009, 10:02 AM
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USA, FL, St Augustine
Joined Dec 2008
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Dupont 3608S. Been using it for years with very good results. Dupont also has 3602S, which is a slower evaporating reducer, but I have never tried it. If blushing becomes a problem (and it often does here in Florida), I just add a small amount of retarder to the 3608S.

I use the cheap stuff from Walmart for cleaning up my spray gun.

Bill Hodges
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Old Jul 25, 2009, 06:08 PM
Will fly for food
Maryland
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The CL Stunt guys swear by Dupont 3608S.

Their recommendation is to use the same thinner for the entire job to avoid issues.
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Old Jul 26, 2009, 09:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LesUyeda
I usually use a good quality of automotive laquer thinner. Works for me on Nitrate and Butyrate dope.

Les

Is this the stuff they sell at loacl auto paint stores, instead of the Hotter stuf they sell at $10 per gallon at Home places?

The auto thinner, has several different types and heat ranges here. Which one to choose then? It ain't cheap as to why I ask.

Wm.
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Old Jul 26, 2009, 09:48 AM
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Definetly NOT the $10/gallon. That stuff is only useable for cleaning up things. Don't know how to advise you on which to choose. I would tend to lean toward something that would dry slower, rather that faster.

Les
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Old Jul 26, 2009, 10:18 AM
Zor
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Les
Agreed to slower instead of faster but how do we know that?
I do not like the idea of buying 3 or 4 to test their drying rate.

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Old Jul 26, 2009, 12:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LesUyeda
Definetly NOT the $10/gallon. That stuff is only useable for cleaning up things. Don't know how to advise you on which to choose. I would tend to lean toward something that would dry slower, rather that faster.

Les

Seems to be same advice I got from neighbor after he painted his Model T Fords.
Used the cheap stuff for clean-ups, but the expensive stuff for reducing. He could not say as to what was what, for he used to mix this brand number with another, all mixed into one old can in order to preserve shelf space. This can had a little of this and that inside.


Wm.
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Old Jul 26, 2009, 09:47 PM
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Alpharetta, GA
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Been using nitrate dope and lacquer thinner for many years. Never had a problem. Lacquer thinner is cheap and readily availlable.

Frank
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