Espritmodel.com Telemetry Radio
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Old Jan 30, 2010, 11:27 PM
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Excellent! I'm bookmarking this page. Thanks a ton. And now that I know where to get the filler and polycrylic, is that fiberglass suitable for the job?
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Old Jan 30, 2010, 11:32 PM
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Originally Posted by GLM View Post
Hi All,

A video of the "Squall Belly Pan" mold being machined.

Coming mid February...

Gary

squall belly pan-4.wmv (0 min 53 sec)(0 min 53 sec)
Gary,

I thought you'd cut it out of billet aluminum Very cool Gary. Need a beta tester?

Bill
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Old Jan 30, 2010, 11:40 PM
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Gary,

I thought you'd cut it out of billet aluminum Very cool Gary. Need a beta tester?

Bill
I could but solid mahogany finishes more easily. And this type I'm using is mighty hard.

I'll have more pics soon - I've got to put the install instructions together and a few other details.

Thanks for the offer

Gary
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Old Jan 30, 2010, 11:58 PM
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Originally Posted by GLM View Post
Hi All,

A video of the "Squall Belly Pan" mold being machined.

Coming mid February...

Gary.
Gary, I hope you are ready for a rush of orders come mid Feb.
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Old Jan 31, 2010, 03:22 AM
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Limiting the power to the motor by limiting the throttle is not a good idea. Most brushless motors reach their efficiency at a throttle range of 90% to full throttle. At lower throttle the motor and/or esc have to burn off the extra current which translates to extra heat.
OK so what are the options if this is a bad idea?

I thought that if you dialled the throttle down on the TX so i wont go past a certain point its not putting full power in? so where will the extra juice come from? a little like a limiter on a car, you floor it but it wont go past 70MPH, you are not putting the full wack in? just a thought!

i really do not want the full power as its simply over kill, maybe i will have to buy the 2836, 3200KV, surely there must be another way to power it down?
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Old Jan 31, 2010, 03:33 AM
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Please,what's the power 's limit (in kw) ,for het 6904?
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Old Jan 31, 2010, 07:17 AM
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Gary, I hope you are ready for a rush of orders come mid Feb.
Me Too !!!

Just kidding - that would be a nice problem to have

Cheers!

Gary
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Old Jan 31, 2010, 09:03 AM
Aka: Tom Jenkins
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Originally Posted by HeliTB View Post
Limiting the power to the motor by limiting the throttle is not a good idea. Most brushless motors reach their efficiency at a throttle range of 90% to full throttle. At lower throttle the motor and/or esc have to burn off the extra current which translates to extra heat.
My reasoning is heat exactly, you see my system is over clocked so to speak, if I run at top rpm I'm waisting energy by making heat, when watt checking on a 4s it hit 102 amps and 1510 watts, thats cool but I don't need to run the motor that fast but its still in a sweet spot for rpm. A 2650 40c can dump 106 amps fresh but a 3000 40c dumps 120 amps and a 3300 40c dumps 132 amps. I can feed enough amps to really go fast and push the motor but why not govern it back, fly fast but not at warp speed, save the all the electronics to fly again. I understand the electrical efficiency dogma as I fly heli also. I guess what I'm saying is going to the max is what we all want for the best efficiency but having the ability to go way over max is cool too but at the expense of equipment.
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Old Jan 31, 2010, 10:10 AM
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There was a discussion about this in the Gaui Tigershark thread and there is also a post on Castle Creations website where I got my statement from regarding the issue of setting an end point on the throttle less than 100%.
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Old Jan 31, 2010, 10:21 AM
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There was a discussion about this in the Gaui Tigershark thread and there is also a post on Castle Creations website where I got my statement from regarding the issue of setting an end point on the throttle less than 100%.
Do you have a link to the Castle post or article that talks about sizing an ESC and how an ESC always sees the max amps of the power system?
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Old Jan 31, 2010, 10:25 AM
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Do you have a link to the Castle post or article that talks about sizing an ESC and how an ESC always sees the max amps of the power system?
Here's the link and I also cut and pasted the actual section too.

http://www.castlecreations.com/suppo...q-general.html

6. Can I control how much current passes through my speed controller by limiting full throttle travel on my transmitter with endpoint adjustments/trim? In other words can I use a 25 amp speed controller with a motor that will pull 45 amps but lower my top throttle endpoint on my transmitter so my watt meter only shows 25 amps at full throttle? Will this be OK?

NO!!! A speed controller controls power to the motor by turning full throttle current on and off really fast, 11 to 13 thousand times per second (Pulse Width Modulation or PWM). The percentage of each on/off pulse that is off compared to the part that is on determines how much power the motor sees. I.E. With a pulse that is 50% off and 50% on the motor will see 50% power*. Because each on pulse is 100% of full throttle current, a system set to pull 20 amps at full throttle through a Phoenix 10 will not last if you are throttled back to the point where you only see 10 amps on a wattmeter. The ESC in this case is still switching 20 amps, which it canít do for long. Actually it is worse than the simple example above. Because an electric motor will always to try to pull as much power as is available to get to its rpm (volts times Kv), when you are running the motor below its Kv speed by switching power on an off, each on pulse will actually be way over the full throttle amp draw. That is why ESCs work harder at partial throttle than full throttle and why we underrate our ESCs. We underrate not so they can handle more current than their rating at full throttle, but so they can handle extended partial throttle operation with no problems.

* Actually, electric power is not linear as in this example, but you get the idea.
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Old Jan 31, 2010, 11:03 AM
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Originally Posted by HeliTB View Post
Here's the link and I also cut and pasted the actual section too.

http://www.castlecreations.com/suppo...q-general.html

6. Can I control how much current passes through my speed controller by limiting full throttle travel on my transmitter with endpoint adjustments/trim? In other words can I use a 25 amp speed controller with a motor that will pull 45 amps but lower my top throttle endpoint on my transmitter so my watt meter only shows 25 amps at full throttle? Will this be OK?

NO!!! A speed controller controls power to the motor by turning full throttle current on and off really fast, 11 to 13 thousand times per second (Pulse Width Modulation or PWM). The percentage of each on/off pulse that is off compared to the part that is on determines how much power the motor sees. I.E. With a pulse that is 50% off and 50% on the motor will see 50% power*. Because each on pulse is 100% of full throttle current, a system set to pull 20 amps at full throttle through a Phoenix 10 will not last if you are throttled back to the point where you only see 10 amps on a wattmeter. The ESC in this case is still switching 20 amps, which it canít do for long. Actually it is worse than the simple example above. Because an electric motor will always to try to pull as much power as is available to get to its rpm (volts times Kv), when you are running the motor below its Kv speed by switching power on an off, each on pulse will actually be way over the full throttle amp draw. That is why ESCs work harder at partial throttle than full throttle and why we underrate our ESCs. We underrate not so they can handle more current than their rating at full throttle, but so they can handle extended partial throttle operation with no problems.

* Actually, electric power is not linear as in this example, but you get the idea.
That's it. It describes why you need headroom in the ESC you select. Knowing how an ESC works is important. In additon, the ever increasing capacity of packs to deliver more current and sagging less (i.e., higher "C" ratings) means last years power setup on 20C pakc that draws 37 amps on 40 amp ESC may pull 45 amps on 35-40C pack that's available today.

Bill
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Old Jan 31, 2010, 11:33 AM
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So I'm getting its ok to 'govern' some with a higher amp esc but not at all with a lower amp esc. How about any ability to set throttle ramp helping with hard power surge demands on a weaker esc.
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Old Jan 31, 2010, 12:21 PM
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Guys I've been reading as much of this thread as I can but it's over 60 pages long. Reading about all the issues with the included fan/motor setup would I be better off buying just the airframe and a separate power system? Have all the fan issues been resolved with the squall?

I plan to fly 3D and run it on 4S.

I really like the jet and the TV system. I'd like to buy it with their fan/motor/esc kit but if its just going to fail after 8 flights I'll be very disappointed if I have to hack it up and buy aftermarket parts for it. Also what size servos fit in it? I have some HS-55 and HS65MG's laying around...

Thanks,
Chris
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Old Jan 31, 2010, 12:28 PM
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I read that article the same way......they are just saying that you need to have an ESC big enough to handle MAX amps the motr/bats can draw and put out.

Most of the time we run our planes at 1/2 to 3/4 throttle anyway.....so I can't see the problem of using endpoints to keep max power down.....it would be like limiting to 3/4 throttle....

The only problem I could see is that some esc's have to "learn" throttle travel from the radio...and maybe having the esc think your using full throttle when your not might mess something up.
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