Question Turnigy BATTERIES

[everydayflyer]

I agree that TP should have marketed them a lot more selectively. I have posted many times that the extreme series should have never been sold to the average modeler however consider this.

Recently (this year) Thunder Power only sold their Pro Power 40s to a limited market,mostly RC surface vehicles and through Bob Violet Models for us in his ducted Fan models. What happened ,many got mad because they could not purchase them . Go figure. Note I am not stating that the Pro Power series has the same problems as the Extreme series dis. My PP 40 has over 160 flights on it and is still as strong as day one with no measurable capacity loss.

Interesting reading for some perhaps.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...7&postcount=35

Snip:

Upon their introduction about a year and a half ago, eXV2 series batteries were the most powerful and longest lasting batteries in their class. That said, it was very true that the cycle life of eXV2 series batteries was not on par with PL series batteries when used in applications routinely averaging 12-15C rates of discharge or less, however, in many applications that averaged discharge rates of 15C+, PL series batteries simply could not survive even just a few cycles where as eXV2 batteries could actually deliver good performance for a number of cycles. Unfortunately though, at the time the eXV2 cells were released (and not then known to be the case), the chemistries required to achieve 25C+ continuous discharge rates were not yet stable/refined enough to deliver the cycle life many were used to seeing with PL series batteries in most other applications, even when used at average discharge rates of 15C or less.

As a result of the issues surrounding maximum power delivery, cycle life and the balance between the two for eXV2 series batteries, for much of the last year Charlie and our team have worked very hard with many new manufacturers (Enerland does not manufacturer the PP30C cells) and engineers to develop chemistries that not only produce more power, but also considerably more cycle life under low, more typical and even maximum discharge rates. For us (and we’re certain everyone else now too), the true “value” of a LiPo battery now goes far beyond the power it can deliver, and is really a measure of how many times you’re able to cycle the battery before it no longer delivers the level of performance you expect or need for your desired application. We’re no longer in race to simply develop the most powerful cells possible as the discharge capabilities of most cells now exceed that of most (though not all) applications. Instead the goal is now to develop and offer cells that deliver strong power and performance without decreasing energy density by a significantly measureable amount, and without significantly sacrificing cycle life.

Charles

[jfetter]

Originally Posted by TreeDiver

Could be, but point 2. of manual does mention 8.7volt with 3cells...

Rob

If you're so dead set on killing your packs then continue, if you want to learn about modern (this year specifically but somewhat last year too) limitations on LiPo discharge then call your LiPo manufacturer, don't think just because the ESC is set to 3.0 Volts (or whatever) LVC that it's right. You have a few different people in here telling you the same thing, pull your head out of your $%^#& and do some research and you may find out if we're right! Yeah well, it's just money...

Jack

[Jim Varley]

Hey TreeDiver!

Yes, X-pro's are all I have, and yes! I agree wholeheartedly, a timer and good knowledge of your power train's electron consumption is the best way to manage your batteries for best health. Hitting LVC is simply a last ditch effort by the system to save your components from definite damage.

[TreeDiver]

@Jack

For the record. I have one TP pack left. After that I do not use them anymore.
Please tell you "weak and idiot" story to TP users.

Again 99% of the ESC cutoff at 3volt per cell and the only batteries that can not handle it are TP eXtreme.

Or does the autolipo selection of CastleCreation does something else????
It is 6volt...9volt....12volt...
The older Jeti and Hacker even Cutoff lower (see link to manual)

All the controllers sold do have 3volt per cell!!!!!!!!!!!

You make a fool of yourself Jack, facts are "firm" against you.

And bye the way, if this is so tricky at these eXtreme packs. Why does TP does not mention this???
User please set Cutoff to 3.3volt per cell....or something like that.
?????

[TreeDiver]

Originally Posted by Jim Varley

Hey TreeDiver!

Yes, X-pro's are all I have, and yes! I agree wholeheartedly, a timer and good knowledge of your power train's electron consumption is the best way to manage your batteries for best health. Hitting LVC is simply a last ditch effort by the system to save your components from definite damage.

The Hacker and Jeti cutoff even lower then 3volt.
So wise to set it manual with USB controller to 3volt per cell or higher if needed.

It works fine these USB controllers and as said, most ESC do have this 3volt per cell setting.
Only at RCgroups a few "users/TP related" people tell other stories.
Unlucky for them the facts are different.

Still, if a pack can handle the amps, a higher cutoff is wise to use.
Also, because then you have also time to land to land on the flying field instead elsewhere.
So if a pack does allow it (has good voltage load) it is wise to use 3.2 or so per cessl.
I did try 3.3volt with 4s cells, but with Extreme Pack that drops to voltage with 15c load to 13volt...you can understand that it is no fun.

Maybe the new packs, which are 30C will do the trick.
I try first 3.2volt and will report.
First I have to breakin the packs (5 times at 5c) and then I will use them in flight pulling 15C.
Next year you guys will hear if the Turnigy 25c did its job and my Rhino 30c did their job

btw flying on time is also an option. Packs duration is often longer then the flights a RC pilot makes. In my case.
I mostely land after 7 minutes.

Rob

[TreeDiver]

Hi guys,

I did say my work about it and will report in the future about the Turnigy pack and Rhino packs I have.
This to stick to this thread.

I had bad expierences with other expensive packs and the competition seems to be much better then expected.
If a 20c cheap pack does outperform a 25c expensive pack...that does say enough to me.

So Jack and Charles. Please do stop with telling weak stories that hold "no ground" at all and are only subject to one brand in the market.

So guys...stay tuned for the reports of Turnigy and Rhino

Rob

ps. And I was right. All Controllers do Cutoff at 3volt per cell and not higher.

[MrMel]

Jack is actually right,

3.0 WAS for the OLD packs, 15C etc, today higher is needed, new ESC's are getting there, CC you can program yourself.

If you discharge newer packs (25+C) regulary to 3.0, THEY WILL FAIL, period!

How they fail is a different story, some loose capacity, some get raise in IR, some puff.
That all depends on the chemistry used for that pack.

Only way to truely use LVC is to add a Schulze LipoDimatic or simular device, monitor each cell, AND program it to correct LVC (3.2 or so)
That is, since voltage drop is so fast when its little capacity left, some cell (if out of balance) will dip more, and just a few mah difference, makes a huge voltage difference when there is no capacity left.

Timer or Lipodimatic, last resort only use LVC in the esc (if max 3.0 is possible) as failsafe, if your forgot to charge your pack.

[MrMel]

By the way, the fact that even new esc's are set for 3.0 isnt because its "right" but how many ESC's would go in return because it cutoff 30 seconds into the flight, for all users having old crappy packs?
Just because your old ESC was set to 3.0 it didnt cutoff.

So from a business standpoint, 3.0 is usually the default for new ESC (not CAR ESC's they are a bit a head already having higher cutoff already)

That doesnt mean its right for you or your packs though.

[TreeDiver]

MrMel,

Well, time will tell.
If the Rhino 30C I did order will have the same problem, I will post it for sure.
The Rhino 20C anyhow are solid in my hangar untill now.

If the new ordered Rhino 30C have a good voltage under load. Then an ESC setting of 3.2volt should be no problem and is wise to do.
In my case it did not work out with the 2008 eXtreme packs because they do not hold voltage with 15C draw. (see other thread about this). So Jack can tell "allot" but it did not work out. Basic design of these packs where "crap".

I agree that it is wise to pick a higher voltage ....but only BECAUSE:
If a pack hits 3volt per cell with the ESC, there is not much juce left...and it can cause trouble in reaching the landing field!

Fact: most RC pilots lands before it his the ESC Cutoff, since with LiPoly you have enough duration already.
Next year for sure more 25c and 30c pack will appear on RC club. Most likely HC packs.
But if they have the same problems as the TP packs, it will pop-up for sure. Do not worry about that.

All RC pilots at our club have 3volt per cell as Cutoff for their packs and I did not notice anyone having troubles with it.
Also these are facts.

So if you and Jack are right, we are going to see "allot" of defect HC packs next year.
As said, time will tell. :-D

Rob

[TreeDiver]

Hi,

Anyhow I hope somebody will post now about his Turnigy 25C pack!!!!
My friend has one and I will ask him if he will post.

So Turnigy users.... please tell us your expierences!!
This thread is initial about Turnigy.

I did my word and told that I am surpriced about the quality of these HC packs and told also that I bad expierence with very expensive packs.
Everybody must value that to his own and make his own conclusion.

Cheers,
Rob

[RC Man]

Originally Posted by TreeDiver

Hi,

Anyhow I hope somebody will post now about his Turnigy 25C pack!!!!
My friend has one and I will ask him if he will post.

So Turnigy users.... please tell us your expierences!!
This thread is initial about Turnigy.

The only Turnigy packs I have are two 5000 4s 30C packs. My CellPro measures IR of about 1.5 when at room temperature and about 1.1 or 1.2 when charged after a flight. These are definitely the most powerful 5000 MAH packs that I have used.

I charge them at 2C and it takes about 25 minutes or less depending on how far I run them down. When charging I really notice that the last phase (CV) goes much faster than on my other batteries.

I only have about 50 flights on each and so far the capacity and IR are the same as when new.

They replaced some EVO 25 5000 packs that I had been flying for a while and the performance boost with the Turnigy packs is very noticeable. The EVO packs also took a lot longer to charge even at 2C.

[MrMel]

My friend's flightmax started to loose punch now after only 30 cycles (about 6 months calender time), correctly stored inbetween, used in low avg draw application (7+ min flighttimes), hard to say why some lasts and some dont really.
That said, they might survive longer though, just not as powerful (they trigger 3.2v cutoff too early now).

[TreeDiver]

@ RC Man

Cool. That is good news. The Turnigy packs mention that they are selected on IR.
Kind of omega symbol at it in upper right corner.

I eager to test my 30C Rhino Packs.
Must say that the Turnigy packs look very cool with this sticker they use.
The 30C Turnigy 2200 seems to be a bit more heavier then the 2150 Rhino 30C, so I did select the Rhino. But if you remove this "thick" plug from Turnigy, they are "allot lighter".
So it could be that the Rhino 2150 and Turnigy 2200 are very close in weight.

I use 3.5plugs and the Rhino will be arround 184gram (3s).

Cheers,
Rob

[TreeDiver]

Originally Posted by MrMel

My friend's flightmax started to loose punch now after only 30 cycles (about 6 months calender time), correctly stored inbetween, used in low avg draw application (7+ min flighttimes), hard to say why some lasts and some dont really.
That said, they might survive longer though, just not as powerful (they trigger 3.2v cutoff too early now).

Hmmm.
Seems to be the same problem I had. They loose power. It also goes slow.
I noticed the defect of my 4s packs the moment my RC friend did fly with the same setup and had far more power. So it can also be sneaky.
Best is to check regular with a "Wattsup" device and check how the voltage does drop during load.
I had only 13volt...pulling 26amps with 4S pack.
30cycles is not much if he did not push the pack to its limit. Bad luck I am afraid...just like me.

Rob

[frankswd]

Originally Posted by TreeDiver

Hi,

Anyhow I hope somebody will post now about his Turnigy 25C pack!!!!
My friend has one and I will ask him if he will post.

So Turnigy users.... please tell us your expierences!!
This thread is initial about Turnigy.

Cheers,
Rob

Actually TreeDiver, I already did but maybe you missed this post:

Here's my video of a 3D Yak using Turingy power system. I get about 3:30 flights using 80% rule for big lipo batterys.
http://www.fliqz.com/aspx/permalink....44909dfad3b56f


This is a 12S1P 5000mah setup with turnigy 100A ESC. No problems drawing 100+ amps in burst over 4000 watts.


Plus my blog which has more actual in-flight data logged data. These are accurate facts of actual preformance of a new pack!

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/member.php?u=11740

Enjoy!


Frank