Question Turnigy BATTERIES

[sparklet]

Originally Posted by Jocke

" i keep it to myself and share it for the ones that can read it"

No point making a comment about having tested loads of cheap lipos and then not wishing to discuss your findings. Why should we take any notice of something that you are "not prepared to discuss" ?

The recent copy of the BMFA magazine carried an article on extensive test results which were carried out on a number of cheap lipos. The cheapest tested, at that time, was a Loong Max and it outperformed the others including an expensive "branded" one.

At least the guy who did the testing was courageous enough to print his test setup, and the results obtained.

Anyone can pop up on the internet and make claims about anything, but without some information about their methods and equipment why would anyone take any notice of them ?

I have just built a Boeing 747 in the spare bedroom but I haven't got any photos I can show on here ! I won't discuss it further because some will not believe me and will make discouraging comments.

[Jocke]

Well i do publish my results... just not here, i have already explained that.

[Himalaya]

For those who's feeling extremely comfortable or even being proud of using expensive LiPos, please just stick on where you are, no problem. For me a simple electric-chemical battery costs more than a TV set looks just rediculous. HC lit up a match why(and how) this is happening. As I know HC is being hated by ALL OTHER RC LiPo market players, and that can't be more natural.

I personally use both worlds, Hyperion(cheapest of the top brands) and then Turnigy and now is wondering why shouldn't I know the latter earlier.

[Himalaya]

Originally Posted by Wayne Giles

Jocke,

Here is a plot of the Turnigy 25C discharged at 20C compared with a Flightpower 30C also discharged at 20C. All other conditions identical.
It looks like the Turnigy is about 3 - 4% up on voltage which should give about 8% more power at the prop. ie a bit over twice the voltage difference.

Wayne

Hi Wayne,

Turnigy performance is surely like that, but how about the cycle/storage life?

As a example Enerland cell basd packs perform great (they must for the price tag) but suffer from built-up IR even left untouched.

everydayflyer's experience is cheap packs may do well for the first few flights but degrades soon--does that still apply to today's new packs? He does much work on pack cycling test, but seems only to those expensive ones. Will you do the Turnigy ?

[Wayne Giles]

Originally Posted by Himalaya

Hi Wayne,

Turnigy performance is surely like that, but how about the cycle/storage life?

As a example Enerland cell basd packs perform great (they must for the price tag) but suffer from built-up IR even left untouched.

everydayflyer's experience is cheap packs may do well for the first few flights but degrades soon--does that still apply to today's new packs? He does much work on pack cycling test, but seems only to those expensive ones. Will you do the Turnigy ?

We should not make the mistake of lumping all "cheap packs" together; each make should be considered individually. I know some labels use the same cells, but test results show that they are not all the same with different labels. It is surprising how consistent packs are on test: I recently found that two types used a common cell, purely by obtaining identical test results. On stripping the packs they proved to be identical cells and construction.
As you may know Bob Smith and I carried out this excercise on 13 different pack about 3 years ago. I built all the test equipment and Bob carried out the testing and wrote up the articles. It was a huge amount of effort for both of us and the results were suppressed by commercial interests so that it was largely a waste of time. The types tested are now too old to be of interest, but I am not inclined to make the effort again just to post on forums, particularly when the feedback that comes over is that many people have already decided and are not receptive to objective test results.
It may well be that there is some factor which causes "cheap" packs to have a short life, but if so it must overide the difference in temperature rise we see, as all accepted wisdom is that high temperatures shorten life.
I only fly at weekends but the most active flyer in our club (who is an ex-flight engineer) tells me that he flew for years with premium packs (Flightpower etc), now flies with Loong Max and Turnigy and can see no discernible difference in cycle life, but can see the difference in performance.(Better)
It would be better if everydayflyer carried out such a test as he could then compare results without argument about testing methods.
Sorry I can't be more help.

Wayne

[barry wilson]

Basically there are many satisfied users. The performance for the buck seems more than adaquate. If there were a high percentage of dissatisfied users of turnigy batteries I would normally expect their viewpoints to have prevailed on this thread.

It is just my opinion that the best cell producers if not already will soon supply hobby king. Hobby king is possibly already the highest volume retail lithium polymer seller in the world by now. For r/c aircraft that is. The cell makers that cater to this market cannot afford to ignore them. Also hopefully expect further price reductions. Based on esculating volumes.

Funny thing is this is just a simular post to what I thought a year or so ago. It is now becoming fact. At present I do not dispute some other labels may still be a little better. That also is fading fast. If I can buy four inferior label batteries acording to some for the price of one of the survivor labels. That is already good enough for me.

I really do not think this whole senario would have occured other than for the arch villan Mr. Anthony. Sure he is not perfect yet has done wonders for the affordability of our hobby.

Ask yourself what would be the likely alternative senario be today if his firm had not come along. So this fellow makes a buck but ask yourself who has done more indirectly in reality to encourage the expansion and affordability of our hobby.

When I was young it was very expensive pursuit. In comparison quite cheap now for younger entery level people. I still think the best is yet to come from that firm.

No I have no connection with the firm other than a high respect for their methology in getting where they are today. Quality across their lineup of products will increase with time as well. That is inevitable in my opinion.

Some of their products are already equal or be superior to their more expensive equivelents. Many others are just a label excessivly marked up a lot by other vendors of the exact same product. We really save a dollar when we identify them.

Turnigy batteries? Why not. What helps hobby king helps us. Any other company come to mind doing as much as hobby king for you? At the same time pioneering new concepts of usable product into the marketplace. At a price so reasonable you actually get to try them out without breaking the bank. I guess I am of the old school. Support firms that actually tangiably help hobbiests. There have been too many one way streets in the hobby world of retailing in my opinion.

[write2dgray]

One point to make here is that HobbyCity has sold PolyQuest (Enerland) packs for many years, right next to their budget brands.

Who is "Mr. Anthony?"

[barry wilson]

Originally Posted by write2dgray

One point to make here is that HobbyCity has sold PolyQuest (Enerland) packs for many years, right next to their budget brands.

Who is "Mr. Anthony?"

Mr. Anthony, I presently forget his surname, the true australian owner and driver of this enterprise was selling lithium polymer batteries at good prices. Even well before he developed the present word wide supplying company presently known as hobby king that exists today. He obviously works very hard for his and our interests.

He actually was the guy that some people loved to hate at one time. I found his leading charactaristic was a quick and agile mind. I also thought it good that he flies model aircraft still with some of his primary staff. He is one driven busy individual these days I imagine. I suspect without being sure he uses another name to represent himself on his forums now.

If I read this guy well and I have so far there should still be many suprises along his companies development path. He appears to have already engaged in handing out object lessons to those that either wish he did not exist. Or had attempted to cut his supplies under pressure from companies desiring the old status quo.

As I stated, smart and agile. Remember even at his prices he is making money as he should be. Also things like the five meter rolls of covering he has supplied so reasonably took a lot of thought and effort. I notice he currently has no posted inventory. The plastic heat shrink covering industy or their customers do not want the higher price structure that exists worldwide broken down I imagine.

I am almost sure there will be some kind of whiplash event against those that try to monopolise and elevate prices for hobby goods beyond reason. I have stopped dealing with firms I suspect have or continue this type of practise. He in my opinion is a true friend of the hobby guy.

[everydayflyer]

Nice to hear the R/C community has yet another Savior!
Reminds me of Towers Hobby ,Hobby Lobby, Hobby Barn , Hobby Hoarse and so many other.


Charles

[kahn10]

there's hobby whores?

[sparklet]

For all the debate online about cheap lipos and if they compare with much higher priced "branded" packs the facts actually speak for themselves.

There are a few detractors who reckon that cheap packs can never be as good as expensive ones.
There are those who assure us that they don't show up well under testing and/or will not last long.

Out in the real world the guys who don't spend much time online are "filling their boots" with cheap lipos. These cheap packs are obviously doing the job as they are selling in ever larger quantities as more and more people switch to them. The vast majority of electric fliers do not appear on here, or other forums, they don't care about others views as they are using their own experience. They are obviously more than satisfied with the budget packs as they keep buying more.

Hobby City recently opened a wharehouse in Germany, this has proved so successful that they are shortly going to open others in France and England.

Despite those who decry cheap lipo packs it appears that the "real world" RC fliers can't get enough of them, fast enough ! How long will the expensive branded packs survive the onslaught ?

[RC Man]

Originally Posted by sparklet

For all the debate online about cheap lipos and if they compare with much higher priced "branded" packs the facts actually speak for themselves.

There are a few detractors who reckon that cheap packs can never be as good as expensive ones.
There are those who assure us that they don't show up well under testing and/or will not last long.

Out in the real world the guys who don't spend much time online are "filling their boots" with cheap lipos. These cheap packs are obviously doing the job as they are selling in ever larger quantities as more and more people switch to them. The vast majority of electric fliers do not appear on here, or other forums, they don't care about others views as they are using their own experience. They are obviously more than satisfied with the budget packs as they keep buying more.

Hobby City recently opened a wharehouse in Germany, this has proved so successful that they are shortly going to open others in France and England.

Despite those who decry cheap lipo packs it appears that the "real world" RC fliers can't get enough of them, fast enough ! How long will the expensive branded packs survive the onslaught ?

I agree 100%

I was one of those skeptical ones until I tried some packs earlier this year. After flying all summer I had more performance and not one problem. Most have between 50 and 150 cycles and are just as good as new. My Cellpro reports the IR and that has stayed about the some all summer on all my packs. I have a mixture of Flightmax and Turnigy packs.

I also don’t really care what others think. I am happy and will continue to buy packs from Hobby King. There is no motivation for me to try anything else. They are starting to get a few packs in the US warehouse so that will really cut down on shipping cost in the future.

[frankswd]

Here's my 2 cents
I bought a pair of HK 6S 5000mAH batteries making 12S pack for my plane, later after some basic testing on my new plane, one cell went bad on one of the packs. HK would not replace the bad battery as it was past 30days from purchase ( it took a while to have the time to setup my plane). That was bad customer service to me. But I looked at what it cost to buy "Branded" batteries, and just bought another whole pack from HK and still was cheaper. As for real world preformance... Here's my blog showing in-flight high voltage, high current, application. Judge for yourself: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/member.php?u=11740

There's been several ground tests, and now about 4 flights on this system. All on same set of batteries ( they are all i have for this plane so far).

I'll keep data logging this power system, so over time we'll see how it holds up. I'll keep blog posting flight data. Let's see watt happens!

[barry wilson]

Well Charles Hobby King is certainly not the savour of the hobby. I had just noticed before they opened it looked like tower hobbies and all their subsiduaries where moving towards a real monopoly hobby supply position in my opinion. At least for north america.

It is pretty well established they fundementally destroyed the neighbourhood hobby shop concept. By not allowing the hobby shops a fair markup compared to what the parent company was retailing their own items for. It is an old game where the parent picked up the spread between their true wholesale cost and perhaps also half of the normal retail spread. The competing retailer was basically just squeezed out. He had to buy from the monopoly to have stock.

Wait until hobby king gets a large operation in north america underway. The alternate surviving retailers are going to scream and reduce their margins or close their doors. Although some may limp along if they refuse changing for years.

I always saw tower as an uncaring straight marketing company caring little if anything for the hobbiest. If whatever new appeared they were doing it in a fashion to only really enrich themselves.

That apparent to me further monopoly attempt was broken by hobby king I believe. The only suprise to me is that tower or one of their subsiduaries did not try to buy hobby king out at the time. Just to shut them down or control the retail prices further. In my opinion it is now too late for them to seriously consider it.

Initial indications to me at least were that hobby king were going to be a real factor in the business long term. Maybe tower thought all hobby guys are totally gullable. The tower hobbies conglamourate obviously where not in touch with the hobby guy. I think further that their total self interest is doing them in slowly but surely....

Once again I am not into the pros and cons of respective hobby items. Usually over time the actual users will determine the value of a product to them. Not the hype and marketing.

You provide an excellent service in separatating mythology into fact when it comes to lithium power and 123 type batteries as well. In fact almost any electrical storage device relating to our hobby. Everyone on site owes you a vote of thanks for your efforts. I thank you as well.

What really has changed that is extremly important to me.. If a young person wants to build and fly a model airplane. It is reasonable to encourage him to do so in a price range he can afford. Usually I land up teaching them how to source needed items, suggest building methods and designs that are practical for them in my opinion. Plus usually giving them a few items as well. The problem is there are so few of them locally.

In my time all we could buy usually was a kit and engine basically. Maybe fifteen dollars for the two and enjoy building the kit. Before that a large quantity of those easybuilt fifty cent kits. Times change.

Today without places like hobby king it can be quite expensive without guidance just to try model aircraft. Too much marketing and greed really inflates costs.

I am also glad that I never missed my free flight period. Perhaps one of the most enjoyable pursuits of my life. It would be hard to explain today the enjoyment we experienced from it. Or the friends and aquaintences developed from it over those earlier years.

Sure at my age I can afford the best of everything the hobby suppliers have. This does not seem to increase the enjoyment at all. I also have to build from plans. In otherwords I am really stuck in the mud still but enjoy it intensly. When I get time that is.

When I had the time sometimes I could not afford some items. Now that I can easily afford almost anything I do not have the time.

[everydayflyer]

Thanks for the flowers Barry and I agree that Great Planes is a monolopy as is Horizion and between them the LHSs are doomed. Even the small on-line vendors are having an extremely difficult time these days.

I also think it is great that those on a very tight budget and those just starting out can afford the hobby better due to HC but I just do not believe the quality is there.

Call me stupid for purchasing $40 servos instead of $8 ones, $125 ESCs instead of $30 ones,etc. but my planes fly for hundreds of flights with next to no maintaince on them. My 3D Hobby Shop Extra 300 has well over 600 flights on it will all original gear. My GP Electro Stik has well over 400 flights on it and I have many more with similiar numbers of flights on them.. I do not have to replace motors,motor bearings,servos or servo gears, ESCs etc. I charge my batteries and fly.

Charles