Poll How many people ran Fasst versus Spektrum

[c/f]

FLB,

Very thorough but lets digress a bit. the guid isssue is non existant on a Robbe FASST module for JR, or the software bugs as its use is for JR the better radio I agree. So this nullifies allot of your radio war arguement for my path forward.

The overheating was about as ignorant R&D oversight as was Quique crashing at SEFF 07 from a unknown 3VDC brownout and diagnosed in 30 minutes and in two weeks all kinds of new ways to power a powergrid including capacitors availability, which BTW continues to be a global excuse still used today from Horizon, And quite frankly IMHO if this bug bites you GOOD LUCK as its gets expensive component swapping or added items of security, so what one might save in RX they add in extra power grid protection, my first line of defense now is to pop out my Spektrum module. pop in the FASST and swap to a FASST rx and BINGO power problems GONE (A WHOLE LOT LESS EXPENSIVE TOO GIVEN YOUR COST ANALYSIS LOGIC), even tho they work near the same brownout VDC. Spektrum is hyper super sensitive and it IMO is a bug still to be root cause determined.

IMHO the FG thread of which I have tracked since its inception is VERY limited in numbers and even tho never officially recognized it is more easily overcome with common sense layout of RX, Besides to me its really a mute point as a 140deg linear BEC chip will shut down the power grid on overtemp, so needing such high thermal operating ranges inside a fuselage really is not that much of a plus IMHO with the add.

And since your recommending google FASST searches you forgot or ommited the low signal output and needing amplifiers to bump it up, but in your search you will also learn that operating at lower VDC increases process speeds and why FASST was leading the way in high speed processing and now Spektrum has the DX7 HS. So it pretty much is tracking equal on both sides in technology advancements as I see it.

BUT NO QUESTION, FUTABA service sux the big one and Horizon is the industry BEST OF leader others should strive to emmulate.

.02

[yank51]

Originally Posted by init4fun

YANK 51 you OWE beagle an apology ! are you serious ?

This will never happen, period. First of all, take a look at the OPs thread title:

How many people ran FASST vs. Sketrum (SP error here)
What, in the heck does Beagles post have to do with this topic anyway??

Second, look at Beagles 1st and 2nd "points":

(1) Spektrum started marketing 2.4 GHz RC aircraft systems in late 2005. They followed up the hit DX6 with an even bigger hit, the DX7, in 2006.

2) It was several years before Futaba had any 2.4 GHz offerings at all.

Hmmmm.... Seems beagle can't count either. It's only been 3 years since Spektrum came out in late 2005 early 2006, not several, and I beg to differ, but Futaba FASST came out right after Spektrum did, the following spring here in the US (I've heard it was earlier in Europe, but I've not checked that).

But, you missed more....

3) Years later, Futaba finally brought their 2.4 GHz aircraft radio offerings to market. Not long after, it was discovered by unfortunate Futaba users that the company had released a large number of 2.4 GHz systems with a manufacturing defect (zero GUID) that allowed any one of these radios to control aircraft bound to any other. Many shoot-downs and lost aircraft resulted, before the problem was discovered at a flying field where three aircraft responded to the same Futaba Tx.

Let's see... Many years later (6 months tops in reality)...

Many shoot downs... Hmmmm... I remember none, but I'm a Futaba fanatic (like there are no Spektum nuts out there...)
I do, however, remember several crashes of un-explained origin in A/C with JR/Spektrum systems, but it's always an overdrawn BEC, or ESC, or ....???
I had 2 different FASST TXs checked for the zero GUID issue, and none were bad. And none were reported in my LHS either.... I'm sure there were a few, but not many. It was the uncertainty that caused all the anguish. Besides, Futaba DID provide a huge number of simple devices to check for problem TXs, and sent them across the country to many LHSs in lieu of a recall. I think they covered it well, but my opinion dioesn't count, only yours does, I forgot....lol

Should I continue??
You call it what you want, but I see it as blatant spin, by someone I don't have a clue who it is, and I'm supposed to apologize?? Really?? Fat chance...

[WTFLYR]

Originally Posted by flieslikeabeagle

There's another side to this. Futaba locked themselves out of the low-cost market with another poor engineering decision.
-Flieslikeabeagle

Yep, it somewhat reminds me of the Microsoft bashers. They well may not have had a great operating system when they started gaining sales, but they knew how to target the market. It was not all fraud and bullying, as some say.

Spektrum was genious in this. Have a system with small receivers, a micro brick, and target the electric market with bind-and-fly products, knowing that many electric flyers love the RTF micro helis and planes, along with gear for the micro builders, to boot. I build EDF30 jets, many 20" and under planes, small Guillows conversions, and other things where lightweight is gold. Other 2.4G systems don't have what I want. I still have a DX6 which works well, and have 72MHz Picos and some even lighter 72MHz receivers for the real small stuff, but if I buy a 2.4G unit again, it will be Spektrum, due to the DSM2 micro gear they have.

[flieslikeabeagle]

Originally Posted by yank51

Should I continue??

Please do, you're quite entertaining.

-Flieslikeabeagle

[David Hogue]

I had a horrible experience with Futball's service just prior to 1991, with a brand new receiver that had an intermittent issue. That rx model gained a rep for problems, which Futaba never acknoledged and did not fix for me under warranty because I did not fly the system until 6 months after I bought it. Back then there werent many arfs, you had to build just about everything...well that plane(Ace 4-40) was destroyed. Sent the radio in, they charged me 75.00 to tell me they found nothing wrong. Another plane, this time a beater, it goes in, sent it in again, with shipping I'm now out over 100.00 to fix a NEW system...at least this time the service is under warranty, and they said they found something intermittent and fixed it. I got it back, sold all my Futaba, with a full explanation on the FGK system, and bought JR with the '91 narrow band conversion we all had to do then. Never looked back, and yes I did feel the difference I do still have 2 magnum jr's, but they're just car radio's.

Horizon has been great handling every problem I had even out of warranty. When you have an issue you really learn what a company is made of....I know where my loyalty lies

[FiremanBill]

I still just don't get why it has to be "us against them"

Aren't we all in this hobby to have fun? I know I am. I fly Spektrum and love it. Not the perfect radio system but then again neither is ("insert any other brand name here").

It's shame to see all this bickering over petty crap like this... Just go fly and have fun, enjoy the hobby.

Unsubscribed...

[aeajr]

Originally Posted by c/f

Since I actually FLY 3 differing types of 2.4G on a single 9303TX I have a unique perspective as to whats real and whats not on 3 differant brands at the same large events.

At SEFF I was flying Corona FHSS in my JR on a 140MPH Projetti, and Micro Mustang TUE, WED,THUR. by Friday it would take forever to actually lock in to fly rendering it useless until Sunday.

Spektrum ran fine for me on my models ,as well but by Fri/Sat long boot times where norm. Dont like the boot process as a wild card. makes me wonder whats going on. I did however have a lockout on third test hop of a prototype SR71 for DreamITRc. REALLY doubtfull of a power managment issue with 2 servos on a 60a Turnigy Plush.

FASST was flawless on my OUTLAW, and ended up buying a FASST rx for the Micro Stang. I fly JR indoor, Efest, and many larger 100 pilot events and FASST has never done anything weird period, it will boot instant rx first, TX first does not matter it is bingo on. Makes me wonder how it never changes no matter the enviroment while the others do vary.

I also have a Eagle Tree Dashboard that operates realtime data in Jets and it is a Beta version on 2.4G, It locks out at certain feilds in certain spots.

IMHO the booting process and the Collision Avoidance features of the linking process seems to be the interferece safeguard than any GUIDED signal coding. The larger expanse venues may prove this futile enviroment for DSSS.

Thanks for this report. Very intersting and useful in my mind.

So you did see a change in behavior, at least at first linking (boot up?) of the receiver and the radio on two of your systems.

Since Spektrum finds and locks to two channels, I can understand why it would take longer to link up in a busy environment.

Don't know how Corona works.

Since Futaba hops, that may be the reason there was no delay in linking. The start up cycle may not be frequency/noise dependent.

Once they linked, did they work well or did you feel any lantency in the air with any of them?

In another thread is has been suggested that there will likely be latency build up as more people arrive and more radios are in use. What was your experience?

Did your experiences vary by location?

[c/f]

I do not ever feel any slowed response at any venue with FASST or Spektrum, Corona is inherently always a little slower as I tend to reduce expo values, FASST is REALLY fast as I increase expo values higher than Spektrum, bare in mind its same TX always.

@ E-fest I was flying a gaui heli again FASST ( I had a power grid brown condition with Spektrum tryingto get by with the "CHEAPER" option, again a swap out), and there were 300+ registered pilots and 20 flight stations, 30 flight stations if you count the vapor area as no stations existed.

I personally find the latency issue to be exaggerated for most users not into heli 3D, since the Futaba 9C has always been the leader in slow reponse almost twice as slow as the industry leader AKA "AIRTRONICS", (Do a latency test search at RUNRYDER), (FWIW the DX6 was never able to be used in a 3D heli as its was anemicly SLOW and shunned by the heli community) yet the 9c is a VERY popular radio and still has good resale $$$. and Airtronics never was "KING" because of its blazing latency speed title.


The Corona is said to be a FASST/FHSS system as well but at e-fest and SEFF it becomes useless and never links up once the traffic increases.

At E-fest with a Spektrum rx in my combat model and 58 pilots I was one of the last to energize and it would not link up, I'm waiting, waiting waiting planes launching, waiting, finally a blinking link and I launch anyways with control, I finished but never again, too nerve racking for my taste, so that model got a FASST rx and next up venue SEFF combat, I purposely insured I was last to energize as a test and bingo instant ON. This is porving to be a worth while differance for me.

Since it appears the Collision Avoidance technology is used I still dont understand how FASST can instant ON, in any enviroment never changes.

Corona must be so slow it cant see any opening yet Futaba does??? weird.......

If Hitec and Airtronics create modules for JR you can bet I'll test theirs in the same apples to apples enviroments and my trusty JR9303.

[flieslikeabeagle]

Interesting report on problems with frequency-hopping Corona systems:
http://www.rcmodelreviews.com/coronafhssissues.shtml

Another interesting review article comparing FASST, Spektrum, Assan, Corona, and iMax 2.4 GHz systems:
http://www.rcmodelreviews.com/spreadspectrumtests.shtml

-Flieslikeabeagle

[aeajr]

FLB,

Thanks for the links. Very interesting reports.

[aeajr]

Originally Posted by c/f

I do not ever feel any slowed response at any venue with FASST or Spektrum, Corona is inherently always a little slower as I tend to reduce expo values, FASST is REALLY fast as I increase expo values higher than Spektrum, bare in mind its same TX always.

Snip...

If Hitec and Airtronics create modules for JR you can bet I'll test theirs in the same apples to apples enviroments and my trusty JR9303.

Thanks! Great information.

[pda4you]

Originally Posted by yank51

3) Years later, Futaba finally brought their 2.4 GHz aircraft radio offerings to market. Not long after, it was discovered by unfortunate Futaba users that the company had released a large number of 2.4 GHz systems with a manufacturing defect (zero GUID) that allowed any one of these radios to control aircraft bound to any other. Many shoot-downs and lost aircraft resulted, before the problem was discovered at a flying field where three aircraft responded to the same Futaba Tx.

Let's see... Many years later (6 months tops in reality)...

Should I continue??

You call it what you want, but I see it as blatant spin, by someone I don't have a clue who it is, and I'm supposed to apologize?? Really?? Fat chance...

Just in the interest of accuracy....Futaba was behind - and yes more than 6 months.

I reviewed the DX6 (had a pre-release radio from Spektrum) and published the review just before (week or two at most) they were available in the marketplace. My review was published on November 24th 2005. It was the first published review of a 2.4GHz system.

This was the first 2.4GHz RC AIR system in the marketplace.

I did the review on the first Futaba 2.4GHz air system - the 6EX. I was not able to secure a pre-release system - so I received mine the same time as Hobbico/Futaba received the main shipment (in the US). I took about 6 weeks to get the review done and in the system. That review was published on June 8th 2007!

So Futaba was almost ~18months behind Spektrum. Spektrum released the DX7 less than one year later (still ~6 full months before the FIRST Futaba system). And the market share loss Futaba experienced speaks volumes.

That is also why Spektrum/JR now dominates in the RC air market - at least at my Hobby shops here in DFW land - and EVERY large RC event I attend.

Futaba released the 7c in late 2007.

Just wanted to add facts!

Mike

[yank51]

Originally Posted by pda4you

Just in the interest of accuracy....Futaba was behind - and yes more than 6 months.

I reviewed the DX6 (had a pre-release radio from Spektrum) and published the review just before (week or two at most) they were available in the marketplace. My review was published on November 24th 2005. It was the first published review of a 2.4GHz system.

This was the first 2.4GHz RC AIR system in the marketplace.

I did the review on the first Futaba 2.4GHz air system - the 6EX. I was not able to secure a pre-release system - so I received mine the same time as Hobbico/Futaba received the main shipment (in the US). I took about 6 weeks to get the review done and in the system. That review was published on June 8th 2007!

So Futaba was almost ~18months behind Spektrum. Spektrum released the DX7 less than one year later (still ~6 full months before the FIRST Futaba system). And the market share loss Futaba experienced speaks volumes.

That is also why Spektrum/JR now dominates in the RC air market - at least at my Hobby shops here in DFW land - and EVERY large RC event I attend.

Futaba released the 7c in late 2007.

Just wanted to add facts!

Mike

Never had an argument with the fact that Spektrum was out first, albeit their full range system (the DX7) was only 6 months ahead of the full range Futaba 6EX, not the several years as reported in an earlier post. I took exception to the mis-use of the English language is all. even your 18 months hardlt constitutes several (or many) years... The DX7 came out and was reported to be available at Horizon in October 2006 per here:
http://www.horizonhobby.com/Articles...ArticleID=1626
And the Futaba FASST 6EX was out 6 months later and reported on here in April 2007: http://www.flyinggiants.com/forums/f...st-system.html

More importantly, what was the original intent of beagles post anyway?? To incite more Chevy vs. Ford crap?? More of the my Dad's tougher than yours?? I don't know about all of you others out there, but it get tiring seeing the same arguments over, and over, and over again, period. I took exception, and rightfully so.... I was reading this thread to get some useful information, not to build a case against Spektrum. Fly them if you have confidence, I don't care. I'm not making any money off of any particular radios system being sold. I do, however, have several friends who do fly Spektrum, and if I can learn what problems others are having with their system, maybe I can help them out. I do know that those of use who fly Futaba here are NOT having ANY issues, heat, zero GUID or otherwise, period.
Firemanbill is right, most have lost any semblance of decency, the ability to garnish useful info. All most seem to want to do is argue, just for the sake of it....

[pda4you]

I agree much about the "Ford vs. Chevy" argument. I could care less what system anyone uses. It is just good we all have a choice.

I can say both the Futaba and Spektrum Systems work very well. I have also played with the Airtronics stuff - it too works well...

I am hopeful to review both the Airtronics 10c system and the new Hitec Aurora. I suspect they too will be great systems.

I do know Horizon deserves kudos - they beat everyone to market, and I suspect they have taken share that Hitec/Airtronics/Futaba will not gain back. It is good to be first - when it works!

Again we all pay our money and take our chances.



Mike

[Manta1]

subscribed .i wanna read the articles in the links later when i have more time.thanks to all whom have contributed.i can say i fly jr9303 spectrum.had a dx7.lost a plane at seff due to some sort of lockout.what caused it who knows..i do like what i have read on the channell hopping of the futaba.i also love my 9303.i think i had a rx go bad in my lost plane at seff.. ford chevy everybody gets mad kinda takes away from this hobby,which should only be smiles..i can say i have not seen a futaba user lose a plane or have trouble that i fly with,and i have seen a couple spectrums go brownout or no control...i will stay with spectrum even so for now.the cost to switch is too much.