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Old Jun 10, 2009, 08:47 AM
Time for me to Fly...
Mr. Wiz's Avatar
United States, MI, Fenton
Joined Jan 2000
8,505 Posts
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Forget about the past. It's all Obama's fault....NOT.

No matter how much our hard right leaning friends here at LTUP wish they could forget the Bush years it ain't going to happen any time soon. They rightly point out Obamas faults and claim the big problems for the country started just a few months ago. Of course, anyone that is willing to accept reality knows that just isn't true. There are no fiscally conservative politicians in Washington and there haven't been for quite some time. Here is a pretty good little piece on the subject.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31199889/
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Old Jun 10, 2009, 09:01 AM
St. Boondock
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Old Jun 10, 2009, 09:08 AM
Cat Rack
MtnGoat's Avatar
Lyle, WA
Joined Dec 2000
1,478 Posts
a glorious attempt at a deflection, but the empirical, falsifiable fact is this...Obama's signature on deficits dwarfing Bush's, is his responsibility. It was a choice, and he chose it. that makes it his.

responsibiitity is empirical, and it is very straightforward.
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Old Jun 10, 2009, 09:36 AM
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MSNBC and the NYT? I thought we were about unbiased reliable news sources around here.
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Old Jun 10, 2009, 09:40 AM
It's 5 O'clock Somewhere
RumRunner_1492's Avatar
Dayton, OH
Joined Feb 2006
417 Posts
Bush and the republican congress were horrible spenders. In hindsight they look very fiscally conservative compared to what we have now.
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Old Jun 10, 2009, 09:43 AM
Time for me to Fly...
Mr. Wiz's Avatar
United States, MI, Fenton
Joined Jan 2000
8,505 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arbo
MSNBC and the NYT? I thought we were about unbiased reliable news sources around here.
Is there any such thing any more? I mean these guys are left the other guys are right. Maybe I should only post links to stories by the BBC.


Oh and to everyone else....
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Old Jun 10, 2009, 09:48 AM
Time for me to Fly...
Mr. Wiz's Avatar
United States, MI, Fenton
Joined Jan 2000
8,505 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by MtnGoat
a glorious attempt at a deflection, but the empirical, falsifiable fact is this...Obama's signature on deficits dwarfing Bush's, is his responsibility. It was a choice, and he chose it. that makes it his.

responsibiitity is empirical, and it is very straightforward.
And responsibility of getting us to this point is also empirical. It was the past administrations choice and they chose it as well. You don't like lefts solution? To bad.... Maybe the right shouldn't have put us there in the first place.
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Old Jun 10, 2009, 09:50 AM
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peterp1964's Avatar
Joined Oct 2005
659 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Wiz
No matter how much our hard right leaning friends here at LTUP wish they could forget the Bush years it ain't going to happen any time soon. They rightly point out Obamas faults and claim the big problems for the country started just a few months ago.
oh noes !!!! reality creeps in like the night stalker
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Old Jun 10, 2009, 09:52 AM
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Joined Oct 2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RumRunner_1492
Bush and the republican congress were horrible spenders.
except they convinced enough that it was the Democrats who were "the spenders."

Well, at least we now know how many in this country are dangerously credulous.
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Old Jun 10, 2009, 09:56 AM
Out of Time
United States, TX
Joined Jul 2003
1,092 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Wiz
No matter how much our hard right leaning friends here at LTUP wish they could forget the Bush years it ain't going to happen any time soon.
When denial runs this deep, it might be time to seek some professional help.

Two notable situations that have happened recently is that California voters have vigorously squashed Dems plans for more taxes, a staple of Obama politics.
Now recently, two not-so-moderate Dems have defected in New York and given the control of the New York House back to Republicans.

The reasons the tide is turning is because even though you are still in denial, the rest of the nation is just beginning to figure out that no, this isn't Bush's fault... anymore.
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Old Jun 10, 2009, 09:58 AM
Out of Time
United States, TX
Joined Jul 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peterp1964
except they convinced enough that it was the Democrats who were "the spenders."

Well, at least we now know how many in this country are dangerously credulous.
And you somehow believe that the spending by the current Democrats doesn't prove that it's the Dems who really are the big spenders?
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Old Jun 10, 2009, 10:00 AM
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Southern MA. USA
Joined Jan 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Wiz
No matter how much our hard right leaning friends here at LTUP wish they could forget the Bush years it ain't going to happen any time soon. They rightly point out Obamas faults and claim the big problems for the country started just a few months ago. Of course, anyone that is willing to accept reality knows that just isn't true. There are no fiscally conservative politicians in Washington and there haven't been for quite some time. Here is a pretty good little piece on the subject.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31199889/

While most of what the piece explains is quite true, the writer doesn't touch on the straw that broke the country's back.

In order to make the story reflect the truth about what in the end caused the crisis that we find ourselves in, the story would have to go back to the Clinton Administration and the dems in congress who invented new and broad Affirmitive Action policies that eventually forced and coerced lenders to provide loans to low income/no income people who couldn't ever pay them back.
Then passed legislation that would make Freddie/Fannie responsible for the unpaid debt, and make us, the tax payer responsible for the failures of Fannie/Freddie.

Though many have found everyone but their own to blame for the Housing/Lending collaps, the trail leads back to Clinton and the Congressional Dems that sought to buy more votes and political support from the poor and minority communities by making the American dream of home ownership available to those who weren't qualified to pay for those homes.
The plan was a failed excercise in social engineering and a grand socialist income redistribution scheme, a piramid type of scheme that by it's very construct could never have worked except in the manner that it did.
And what only can be discribed as idiotic, except when one considers what it takes to run a halfassed cover up, the very people who took part in the theft of this country's wealth and headed the programs that achived that theft, were appointed by the new administration to oversee the reconstruction of that part of the economy that they themselves ruined.

It's been said that all of the above is irrelevent, because the Bush Administration was in power and had the majority in congress for six out of the eight years leadig up to the melt down.
But what's dismissed is that the Bush administration started warning congress as far back as 2001, and every year there after, that the affirmitive action lending policy's of the last administration were doomed to fail, but that the words of Barney Frank and Chris Dodd that "The poliicies of the lending industry in regards to low income loans are working well, are in no danger of failing, and are otherwise stable" quieted the fears of congress.

At the point where it started to be apparent that that we were in real trouble the power in congress changed to the dems, and the Frank/Dodd plan was untouchable.

Did the Bush administration do it's best to head it off, No it didn't, does the Bush Administration deserve some blame for this crisis, you bet they do.

But it was the progressive liberal agenda of trying to make everybody equal economically, an impossible task, one that defies reality in a country that has it's roots in opportunity and personal advancement based on one's own hard work and aquired skills.

And that's the rest of the story.
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Old Jun 10, 2009, 10:04 AM
I got too many hobbies!
BRETT65's Avatar
United States, OK, Oklahoma City
Joined May 2009
51 Posts
It is possible to take a bad situation and make it worse. Obama has done that. It will only increase under him at a faster rate than bush did it. You say not to ignore the past, but you're ignoring the present. Also, PMSNBC is state run media, what do expect them to say?
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Old Jun 10, 2009, 10:05 AM
It's 5 O'clock Somewhere
RumRunner_1492's Avatar
Dayton, OH
Joined Feb 2006
417 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by peterp1964
except they convinced enough that it was the Democrats who were "the spenders."

Well, at least we now know how many in this country are dangerously credulous.
Given the record pace of spending during the first few months of this administration I think it is pretty clear who the real spenders are. There is no doubt that the democrats are the party of big govenrment and HUGE spending.
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Old Jun 10, 2009, 10:34 AM
Registered User
Southern MA. USA
Joined Jan 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RumRunner_1492
Given the record pace of spending during the first few months of this administration I think it is pretty clear who the real spenders are. There is no doubt that the democrats are the party of big govenrment and HUGE spending.
In defense of democrats, I think it's the extreme left of the dem party that calles themselves progressives that is the problem, combined with that part of the republician party that has thrown it's roots and conservative values under the bus, none of them are working for us, they are our employees, and they are bossing us around.

And while they are at their growing of big government and remaking America into a socialist and dependent state, they keep us fighting among ourselves out petty disagreements and social issues.
Some day soon, we will wake up to a George Orwell existance and wonder what the hell happened to our republic and our freedoms just as we wonder today what happened to the peace of mind we had about our future just a few yeas ago, who immagined then that we would be accepting of a government agent telling GM who to hire and fire, or Chysler how many dealerships to close up, much less holding the Chair that rules Wall Street.

I'll say this, if everyday Joe Lunchbox Democrats and republicians don't wake up soon and join forces against the creeping socialist/marxist tide that is sweeping over this country, it will be too late to turn things around, and I guaranty that the yoke of government that is placed on all our shoulders will be heavy indeed.
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