HobbyKing.com New Products Flash Sale
Reply
Thread Tools
Old Sep 19, 2010, 10:31 AM
Registered User
Bradford West Yorkshire, UK
Joined Apr 2010
1,597 Posts
Answering two posts, For Ether try the local hospital Sparks, used as an antiseptic disinfectant and used to be used as an anesthetic. Parraffin is "Our" (Brit) term for Kerosene you're probably too young to remember the "Esso Blee Dooler" (Blue dealer really), used in heaters before the Gas bottles.

DON'T use the Ketones.

JohnAV8R - I suppose you've seen the original trade report for the small Tappy?? Would appear that the first Tappy's were made from bits of the ED Hunter (3 1/2cc). The original crankcases suffered from the Alloy Worm, (crap castings) and they broke up round the cylinder clamping screws on the crankcase.

Nearly sure someone on an engine building forum did a tretise on the ED story and Colonel Taplins influence.

Regards Ian.
Circlip is offline Find More Posts by Circlip
Reply With Quote
Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
Old Sep 19, 2010, 10:42 AM
Registered User
Gluehand's Avatar
The windy west coast of Sweden
Joined Sep 2008
2,819 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnAV8R View Post
perhaps you could get us a few more pictures. Maybe a peak in the back or with one of the cylinders removed to show the rod and crank?
Ok, here it is, "exploded" on my table...
I let the photos speak...



Oh, another thing:
When I assembled the engine, after taking these photos, I made a mistake.......guess what...?
(the hawk-eyed viewer will spot it, when comparing to my previous TT-post..)


Gluehand is online now Find More Posts by Gluehand
Last edited by Gluehand; Sep 19, 2010 at 10:49 AM.
Reply With Quote
Old Sep 20, 2010, 10:55 AM
Registered User
amherst,nova scotia,canada
Joined Nov 2003
787 Posts
Does any member know if the russian mk-12 2.5 cc is in the same quality area as the mk-17 1.5 cc ? I know occassionally there are bad mk-17s but believe they have the reputation of less issues in general than the majority of other russian diesels.
barry wilson is offline Find More Posts by barry wilson
Reply With Quote
Old Sep 20, 2010, 03:02 PM
Sic itur ad Astra
sparks59's Avatar
United Arab Emirates, Abu Dhabi, Abu Dhabi
Joined Aug 2009
1,603 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Circlip View Post
Answering two posts, For Ether try the local hospital Sparks, used as an antiseptic disinfectant and used to be used as an anesthetic. Parraffin is "Our" (Brit) term for Kerosene you're probably too young to remember the "Esso Blee Dooler" (Blue dealer really), used in heaters before the Gas bottles.

DON'T use the Ketones.

JohnAV8R - I suppose you've seen the original trade report for the small Tappy?? Would appear that the first Tappy's were made from bits of the ED Hunter (3 1/2cc). The original crankcases suffered from the Alloy Worm, (crap castings) and they broke up round the cylinder clamping screws on the crankcase.

Nearly sure someone on an engine building forum did a tretise on the ED story and Colonel Taplins influence.

Regards Ian.
Cheers Ian.

Unfortunately, I do remember esso blue! 'they asked me how I knew, esso blue was bloo, I of course replied, with lower grades one buys...'

Getting the ether from the hospital without a letter from the Sheikh will probably be impossible.
The kero or paraffin may be available, I just havent seen it here, thats why I thought of the lamp oil, as it has a very similar aroma and texture as paraffin.
I'm going to keep trying on the easy start route.

I might try a mix with the easy start, castor and lamp oil as an experiment.

sparks
sparks59 is offline Find More Posts by sparks59
Reply With Quote
Old Sep 20, 2010, 06:17 PM
Registered User
Canada, ON, Hamilton
Joined Oct 2005
2,456 Posts
TT, a twin 3.5 diesel ahead of its' time.

Gluehand, thanks for posting the TT. Itís a rather complex engine, especially for itsí day. Maybe itís the angle, but the crank pins appear to be different diameters, with the length of the front one catching the crank, and each to match itsí own rod. I didnít realize the steel cylinders were welded together. That must have been very tricky, so as not to cause a warp. The press fit of the crankcase makes it all very permanent, you only get one set of bearings. There is also a lot of extra hand labour to make and fit those parts. A very impressive engine.
JohnAV8R is offline Find More Posts by JohnAV8R
Reply With Quote
Old Sep 20, 2010, 06:43 PM
Sir Jasper
zl3vml's Avatar
Christchurch - New Zealand
Joined Jan 2003
785 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by sparks59 View Post
The kero or paraffin may be available, I just havent seen it here, thats why I thought of the lamp oil, as it has a very similar aroma and texture as paraffin.
I'm going to keep trying on the easy start route.

I might try a mix with the easy start, castor and lamp oil as an experiment.

sparks
Try your local air/heli ports for Jet-A fuel.
We have been using it for some years now and about a quarter the price of kero from their bowsers.
Jet fuel is just a higher grade of kero with some additional antifungal agents in.

Mark
zl3vml is online now Find More Posts by zl3vml
Reply With Quote
Old Sep 20, 2010, 10:13 PM
Sic itur ad Astra
sparks59's Avatar
United Arab Emirates, Abu Dhabi, Abu Dhabi
Joined Aug 2009
1,603 Posts
Thanks Sir J. I'll follow that one up, still doubtful that I'll be able to get it officially, but worth a try!
sparks59 is offline Find More Posts by sparks59
Reply With Quote
Old Sep 21, 2010, 02:48 AM
Registered User
Gluehand's Avatar
The windy west coast of Sweden
Joined Sep 2008
2,819 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnAV8R View Post
Gluehand, thanks for posting the TT. It’s a rather complex engine, especially for its’ day. Maybe it’s the angle, but the crank pins appear to be different diameters, with the length of the front one catching the crank, and each to match its’ own rod. I didn’t realize the steel cylinders were welded together. That must have been very tricky, so as not to cause a warp. The press fit of the crankcase makes it all very permanent, you only get one set of bearings. There is also a lot of extra hand labour to make and fit those parts. A very impressive engine.
John, the crank pins are the same diameters...I guess the different lengths cheat the eye...
Yes, brazing (or welding) the cylinder units to the inlet manifold, must have been somewhat tricky, in order to prevent warpage...I wonder how they did it...?...maybe the units were firmly held by a jig during the whole process, pre-heated, followed by a very slow cooling phase...?
And take a look at the exhaust manifold...pressed, bent, brazed, and then plated...this way of manufacturing would be economical suicide today (maybe even then...)
I agree, a TT is rather complex...many mating surfaces where the fit and seal have to be good...many parts - and many bolts...
Stripping down for cleaning is definitely not a 10 minute routine process...
The '2-part' crankshaft is a good idea, as this reduces the inevitable stresses, connected to long, complex shafts. Replacement of the 2 main ball bearings must be a nightmare though......luckily this isn't a high revving engine...
An interesting piece of machinery....externally a bit rough, but the craftsmanship is good, and the materials don't show any trace of the aforementioned 'cheesyness'...

Gluehand is online now Find More Posts by Gluehand
Reply With Quote
Old Sep 21, 2010, 04:57 AM
Sic itur ad Astra
sparks59's Avatar
United Arab Emirates, Abu Dhabi, Abu Dhabi
Joined Aug 2009
1,603 Posts
Hey Guys,
If I ever get a source of fuel sorted out, one of the things I was thinking of trying was to fit an rc 'carb' to the PAW 1.49. According to PAW, the one which they make for the more modern engine will not fit on the older, 70's edition. Has anyone done this, found something to modify, made one themselves?
Or will I just produce an engine that will never run properly. I do recall that the old PAW took some juggling between the needle and the compression setting to get it to peak.

sparks
sparks59 is offline Find More Posts by sparks59
Reply With Quote
Old Sep 21, 2010, 05:37 AM
Registered User
Gluehand's Avatar
The windy west coast of Sweden
Joined Sep 2008
2,819 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by sparks59 View Post
Hey Guys,
If I ever get a source of fuel sorted out, one of the things I was thinking of trying was to fit an rc 'carb' to the PAW 1.49. According to PAW, the one which they make for the more modern engine will not fit on the older, 70's edition. Has anyone done this, found something to modify, made one themselves?
Or will I just produce an engine that will never run properly. I do recall that the old PAW took some juggling between the needle and the compression setting to get it to peak.
Oh...repressed memories are brought into light....
In fact, I did just this, in the early 80's, with an early PAW 1.49 with the upright venturi.
Thinking back, I'm not too proud of it though, as it included some surgical action on this old classic...a dirty deed, really...
The upright intake stub is too tall...i.e. the carb sleeve doesn't reach far enough to seal the 2 drilled holes for the original spraybar, so I simply shortened it (hacksaw & file), which also had to include a partial removal of the supporting web between intake and crankcase...what I dont remember is whether or not I had to drill the venturi to make the carb fit...possibly I didn't (?)
Dirty Deed No 2 was that I epoxied the carb , as there was not enough metal to fit a grub screw...

(Note: This carb was an original PAW)

Well, did it work then?.......yes it did......the throttling was great, even though there was no silencer fitted...

This is my experience, shared here with some embarrassment...
My advice is: Don't do it........selling your oldie and buy a new or used PAW RC would be a better idea...

Gluehand is online now Find More Posts by Gluehand
Last edited by Gluehand; Sep 21, 2010 at 11:34 AM.
Reply With Quote
Old Sep 21, 2010, 08:17 AM
Sic itur ad Astra
sparks59's Avatar
United Arab Emirates, Abu Dhabi, Abu Dhabi
Joined Aug 2009
1,603 Posts
This is my experience, shared here with some embarrassment...
My advice is: Don't do it........selling your oldie and buy a new or used PAW RC would be a better idea...

Thanks Gluehand... That's why I posted the question on here. No way would I want to start cutting and filing my old pride and joy. As you say, better to buy something else if that's what I wanted. I'd just like the idea of trying it, if it could be done, 'sans hacksaw'

I had sort of envisaged the RC barrel sitting on a short tubular post, inside or outside the old upright venturi. I guess the inlet length would probably be too long and that in itself could have a seriously adverse affect on the carburettion / misting.

sparks
sparks59 is offline Find More Posts by sparks59
Reply With Quote
Old Sep 21, 2010, 08:26 AM
Registered User
Northumberland, England
Joined Jan 2007
626 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by sparks59 View Post
Hi Guys,
I have been out today looking for potential sources for fuel.
I would be grateful for any comments or help that you guys may be able to offer!

1. Castor oil, available but only small bottles found so far. Could I substitute with mineral or synthetic oil?
...
Any thoughts?
I used to use car engine oil (SAE 30 or equivalent) when I mixed my own diesel fuel. Castor oil won't blend with kerosene/lamp oil/paraffin until the is added to ether keep both in solution.
If the small bottles of castor oil are medicinal type you'll find it tends to be more viscous than the lubricant type of castor oil. It's useable but will create more exhaust sludge than normal , IMO mineral oil would be a better option.
patmcc is online now Find More Posts by patmcc
Reply With Quote
Old Sep 21, 2010, 09:10 AM
Registered User
Bradford West Yorkshire, UK
Joined Apr 2010
1,597 Posts
As Patmcc says, mineral oil would work, but if you're going down the Jet -A route, Castrol -R is a vegetable oil like castor, and I remember that oil with the same smell as "R" is used as a lubricant in turbo-prop engines.

Used to be a "Thing" in WW1., the pilots with the blackened faces from the oil blowback, had the permanent "S***s" due to the Castor.

Regards Ian.
Circlip is offline Find More Posts by Circlip
Reply With Quote
Old Sep 21, 2010, 10:05 AM
Registered User
Northumberland, England
Joined Jan 2007
626 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Circlip View Post
As Patmcc says, mineral oil would work, but if you're going down the Jet -A route, Castrol -R is a vegetable oil like castor, and I remember that oil with the same smell as "R" is used as a lubricant in turbo-prop engines.

Used to be a "Thing" in WW1., the pilots with the blackened faces from the oil blowback, had the permanent "S***s" due to the Castor.

Regards Ian.
The difference is that unlike 2 stroke engines, turbo prop & WW1 rotary engines don't/didn't mix the lubricating oil with the fuel oil. The oils reach the engine from separate tanks.
patmcc is online now Find More Posts by patmcc
Reply With Quote
Old Sep 21, 2010, 11:43 AM
Registered User
Gluehand's Avatar
The windy west coast of Sweden
Joined Sep 2008
2,819 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by sparks59 View Post
I had sort of envisaged the RC barrel sitting on a short tubular post, inside or outside the old upright venturi.
I wouldn't be surprised if this turns out to work just fine...diesels are, in many ways, quite non-critical, and tall inlet manifolds are rarely a source of trouble, particularily if you don't intend to squeeze the last rpm's out of the engine, anyway...
And this experiment could be done without modifying anything...
Gluehand is online now Find More Posts by Gluehand
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Category Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Discussion Need help with two diesel engines ! cosmin Engines 4 Apr 18, 2014 07:18 PM
Diesel Engines Aeromister Engines 8 Sep 01, 2009 07:17 AM
WTB-Model Diesel Fuel slogo Aircraft - Fuel - Airplanes (FS/W) 3 Nov 13, 2004 09:42 PM
scale model of engines dw1122 Life, The Universe, and Politics 2 Apr 23, 2004 05:43 AM
diesel engines wyflyer_55 Fuel Plane Talk 7 Apr 22, 2002 02:45 AM