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Old Dec 31, 2012, 10:18 AM
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According to Aeromodeller review, May. 1963, a TD 09 on 30% nitro puts out 0.235 BHP at 19,000 RPM. April, 1961 Model Aircraft review says Oliver Cub MKII, puts out 0.186 BHP at 16,000 RPM. Flying my TD 09s on 10% nitro with a Cox 7 x 3.5 prop, the BHP is 0.156 at 16,000 RPM. All very interesting.
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Old Dec 31, 2012, 10:52 AM
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Cox TD

Jim, nice to hear that you also like the TD .09.
I guess I liked it so much, even now, is that I have had 40 years of excellent service from them.
I don’t run mine “flat out” but rather easy. Sport FF or RC an 8x4 prop. For faster planes I use a 7 x4 wide blade (MAS, no longer made), and now an APC narrow blade. I found that on 25% nitro, hand starting often made the engine kick back, pre ignite, and the prop would just bounce back and forth. My “cure” was to prime with 5% fuel, which started first flip. The after market “glow head adapters” lost about 500 rpm compared to the TD glow head. Backed off from “peak rpm” a steady 15,500 ~15,800 was there. Using a DD head, an 8x4 will turn over 10,000. A small 350 sq inch (area) wing at 32 oz weight flies very well with the TD .09 power. A similar sized plane (Blue Flame, 2 cc MVVS)) is shown in my blog.
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Old Dec 31, 2012, 11:00 AM
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I used to fly all the TDs - 049, 09, 15 and the Cox Special 15 in 1/2A and open power models, and if you wanted them to REALLY sing a minimum of 30% nitro was needed. I used to get KK Nitrex 30 (sigh, those were the days) and add a "slug" of nitro. The only one you had to be careful with was the earlier .15 with the thin cylinder, overdo it and you could blow the top off! Glow heads didn't last too long, so all my motors soon sported machined out heads with normal glow plugs, it didn't seem to affect the performance. The great thing about the Cox contest engines was their consistency. Over the years I had 4 049's, 3 09's, 2 .15's and two Specials and they were all brilliant
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Old Dec 31, 2012, 12:06 PM
Sticks, Tissue & old Diesels
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Thomerson View Post
According to Aeromodeller review, May. 1963, a TD 09 on 30% nitro puts out 0.235 BHP at 19,000 RPM. April, 1961 Model Aircraft review says Oliver Cub MKII, puts out 0.186 BHP at 16,000 RPM. Flying my TD 09s on 10% nitro with a Cox 7 x 3.5 prop, the BHP is 0.156 at 16,000 RPM. All very interesting.
I agree with Jim, the TD .09 has to be the benchmark for 09s.
However, two reservations should be made, relating to the Oliver comparison. Firstly, the last Oliver Cub, (the Schnürle) is probably quite a lot more powerful than the Mk II test quoted by Jim (I've never seen a serious Ollie Schnürle test) and, secondly, the TD will only be more powerful than the Ollie Cub if you want to go above about 17000 rpm... Not for me although, like George, I have fond memories of Joe Klause modified TDs on 50% nitro... Aaahhhh... and I still have an NIB Special Mk II and a still new KK modified .051.
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Old Dec 31, 2012, 12:49 PM
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You guys have got this thing off thread with Cox glow engines, but I have to forgive you as I am a strong and long Cox lover.
I currrently have 2 Cox 0.010s, one Cox 0.020, two Cox 0.049s, two Cox 0.09s and one Cox 0.15, all TDs. All date from 1961 to 1965.
I can vouch for their addiction to high nitro fuels. At the 1963 FF World Champs, Maurice Doyle and I were using Nitrex 30. We ran out of fuel and although we had nitro and castor we could not get methanol to mix fuel. Doug Gabraith came to the rescue in giving us a jug of his 50% nitro "trimming fuel" which served us well. (although not well enough to match Doug's performance).
To keep a bit on track I also have a 1963 Oliver Tiger Cub, my favorite motor of all time, which unfortunately had to have a crankcase replacement in 1965, the one with the silencer flange, following the SMAE introduction of the dreaded Silencer Rule. Remember that one George??
Well, the very best to all of you for the New Year. It is a bit tempered with the loss of three comrades in the past month, Sal Taibi, Al Wisher and George Fuller.
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Old Dec 31, 2012, 02:23 PM
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Yes, I guess we got off the diesel topic with the Cox TeeDee's, but there are DD heads for these engines. So, we still have a diesel! I haven't had too much success with the Teflon inserts and they seem to blow out too quickly, especially on the .049.
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Old Dec 31, 2012, 05:58 PM
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Interesting discussion on Olly Cubs. I have a few (including a Schnürle), some early mk2's and a few late ones. They are back in production (including the Schnürle)) and reputed to be better than ever.

I also have a pair of Steve Rothwell's mk1 Cub copies.

Greggles47 and myself have used these motors in Phantom Racing and Vintage 1/2A Team Race for over a decade.

Using a standard APC 7 x 4 test prop I've got the following results. This prop is significant because in it's standard form it's used as a calibration prop in the currently used Prop Power Absorption tables.

Olly Cub mk2 MOD about 17000 rpm
Olly Cub (Schnürle) 17300 rpm
Rothwell R150 17800 rpm

Interesting that the R150 design is an almost exact rendition of the 1954 engine which was a failure and it shows what can be achieved with modern tools and materials.

How do they compare with a Cox TD 09?

I'd say that the glow is always going to be more powerful, however the Ollys are incredibly low on fuel consumption since they've been designed for Team Race.

They'll also handstart hot or cold first flick all day.


Ray
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Old Dec 31, 2012, 06:32 PM
"Unnecessary Necessity"
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnAV8R View Post
Yes, I guess we got off the diesel topic with the Cox TeeDee's, but there are DD heads for these engines. So, we still have a diesel! I haven't had too much success with the Teflon inserts and they seem to blow out too quickly, especially on the .049.
The DD diesel head works well for the TD .049/.051, the teflon disk doesn't last long but I now cut replacement out of aluminium pop cans!
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Old Dec 31, 2012, 07:34 PM
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Ray, OT’s, at
Olly Cub mk2 MOD about 17000 rpm
Olly Cub (Schnürle) 17300 rpm
Rothwell R150 17800 rpm

Are above the TD!

See post #4392 for specs on the Parra Wasp,
7x4 @17,500
7x3 @ 20,900

All these little diesels are producing serious power for 1.5cc

Coriolan. Thanks for the “pop can” suggestion.
Perhaps part of my problem with the Teflon inserts is that I don’t like to torque the cylinder down super tight. If I do, then I get tool marks on the flats when trying to take it off, or the cylinder starts to unscrew, etc. I haven’t had much success using a leather belt/strap to wrap around the cylinder. I always feel badly when I make a tool mark dismantling the parts or causing crash damage to the engine.
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Old Jan 01, 2013, 12:44 PM
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Originally Posted by JohnAV8R View Post
I haven’t had much success using a leather belt/strap to wrap around the cylinder.
John, don't give up the leather...it should work fine..! Particularily when combined with some heat. The trick is to find the right kind of leather, i.e. thick & soft at the same time.

When unscrewing/tightening liners with 360° (three port) exhaust porting, the simple adjustable wrench shown below has worked great to me.
The alu plate doesn't make any marks at all...
I hope the scetch is understandable.

And yes, tightening should be done in a "controlled" way..."white knuckles" don't improve anything, rather the opposite in the long trun...




By the way....I wish a Happy New Year to you all....!
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Old Jan 02, 2013, 09:36 PM
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I was given this old boat engine this evening, anyone recognize it?

The engine and housing came with a boat kit years ago and note the pull start.

Bill
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Old Jan 02, 2013, 10:04 PM
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Thanks Gluehand. That looks like a handy “tool” that should be able to do the trick and leave no marks. Yes, it’s surprising what a little heat will do, especially with old castor oil. I have used heavy leather gloves and a hot air torch to undo cylinders, but I don’t have the strength in my hands any more.

Bill, I’ll be out to check out your new diesel. Give it a warm bath and a shot of oil. Let’s hope that the insides are ok.
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Old Jan 02, 2013, 10:38 PM
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Originally Posted by williame3590 View Post
I was given this old boat engine this evening, anyone recognize it?
Bill
It is a Taifun Blizzard 2.5ccm marine in a Graupner Dolphin marine unit.
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Old Jan 02, 2013, 10:57 PM
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Thanks alot JM

Bill
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Old Jan 03, 2013, 02:56 AM
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Yep, its a "Taifun Delphin" marine unit....I found these photos "out there"...
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