SMALL - espritmodel.com SMALL - Telemetry SMALL - Radio
Reply
Thread Tools
Old Nov 07, 2012, 07:37 AM
Registered User
Reginald's Avatar
Belgium
Joined Aug 2004
3,985 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sundancer View Post
Excuse my puzzlement, but who is Bob? brokenenglish is called Brian and I only read his post as saying it was his last word on the Frog 50 argument???
His mail to me is signed Bob
Reginald is offline Find More Posts by Reginald
Reply With Quote
Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
Old Nov 07, 2012, 07:39 AM
Registered User
Reginald's Avatar
Belgium
Joined Aug 2004
3,985 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by brokenenglish View Post
Gentlemen,
Thanks for your concern. I certainly didn't intend to "disappear". Olmod's interpretation, above, is perfectly correct.
Bob regularly goes walkabout. He'll be back.
Brian
I was talking about Twinstack. This is getting confusing.
Reginald is offline Find More Posts by Reginald
Reply With Quote
Old Nov 07, 2012, 08:07 AM
Registered User
downunder's Avatar
Adelaide, South Australia
Joined Sep 2003
3,103 Posts
Twin-Stack is Bob Allan, world expert on all things Enya.

Me, another Brian .
downunder is online now Find More Posts by downunder
Reply With Quote
Old Nov 07, 2012, 08:26 AM
Sticks, Tissue & old Diesels
brokenenglish's Avatar
France, Centre, Amboise
Joined Nov 2011
1,718 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reginald View Post
His mail to me is signed Bob
Reggie, you must have been confused somewhere.
If you received a mail signed Bob, then it was probably from TwinStack and certainly not from brokenenglish.
Nothing serious!
brokenenglish is offline Find More Posts by brokenenglish
RCG Plus Member
Old Nov 07, 2012, 09:09 AM
Registered User
Reginald's Avatar
Belgium
Joined Aug 2004
3,985 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by brokenenglish View Post
Reggie, you must have been confused somewhere.
If you received a mail signed Bob, then it was probably from TwinStack and certainly not from brokenenglish.
Nothing serious!
OK so we all agree then that Twinstack has left
Reginald is offline Find More Posts by Reginald
Reply With Quote
Old Nov 09, 2012, 05:33 PM
Sticks, Tissue & old Diesels
brokenenglish's Avatar
France, Centre, Amboise
Joined Nov 2011
1,718 Posts
English diesels - Genesis - The ED Bee Mk I

After last week’s Shakespearean drama, I thought it would be a good idea to look at some of the early English diesels in terms of real engines, and not just brandishing documentation which, in many cases, is subject to interpretation.
On Ron Chernich’s MEN Web site, Adrian Duncan has done a superb job of compiling full social and economic reports for many of the early English manufacturers, but there’s still a lot to be recorded about individual engines.
The starting point for any consideration of English diesels has to be the ED Bee, which was launched commercially in September 1948.
I know it wasn’t chronologically the first, but it’s so representative and so loved.
Anyway, I propose to cover the ED Bee Mk I, in detail, over the next couple of days, and then perhaps go on to the Comp Special, the ED Mk IV, and other engines, hopefully without sparking off another rebellion in the colonies!
Obviously, I’d be very pleased if anyone wishes to comment or add to my own contribution.
So... the prototype ED Bee (well-known advert photo), and the first two production models (1948) are shown below. Specific features of each engine are shown on the photos and, unless anyone objects, I’ll continue with the 1949/50/51/52 variants over the next few days. There are at least half a dozen different variants of the Mk I Bee...
brokenenglish is offline Find More Posts by brokenenglish
RCG Plus Member
Old Nov 09, 2012, 07:07 PM
Registered User
Gold Coast Australia.
Joined Jan 2005
2,536 Posts
This is good to see the many changes in production engines over the years.

I was made aware my BEE that runs well, is all wrong with a mix of variants, not that it worries me as I like to use my engines.

Here a pic of mine, so please take a look and tell us what the mix is.

I also have a Comp. Spec. in a Frankenstein FF model that's bound to be wrong also, so look forward to the posts on that.
gossie is offline Find More Posts by gossie
Reply With Quote
Old Nov 09, 2012, 08:44 PM
Registered User
Gluehand's Avatar
The windy west coast of Sweden
Joined Sep 2008
3,035 Posts
Here are my two "Bees"....

The R/H (later) engine came complete with box & papers from the son of its sole owner, thus making me suspect the T-bar comp.screw is "original".
Any comments on this...?
Gluehand is online now Find More Posts by Gluehand
Reply With Quote
Old Nov 10, 2012, 02:53 AM
Registered User
JMP_blackfoot's Avatar
United States, OH, Galena
Joined Jul 2003
1,722 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gluehand View Post
Here are my two "Bees"....
The R/H (later) engine came complete with box & papers from the son of its sole owner, thus making me suspect the T-bar comp.screw is "original".
Any comments on this...?
According to the attached document, the left one would be no. 369 made in December 1951, the one of the right being no. 931 made in February 1954. My one and only Mk1 has serial 1A102 52, understood to be no. 102 made in January 1952. It is like your older Mk1, except it has the T compression lever and the green tank of your later Mk1.
JMP_blackfoot is online now Find More Posts by JMP_blackfoot
Reply With Quote
Old Nov 10, 2012, 10:04 AM
Sticks, Tissue & old Diesels
brokenenglish's Avatar
France, Centre, Amboise
Joined Nov 2011
1,718 Posts
ED Bees again

Thanks for the reactions to my post yesterday.
I’ll try to deal with a couple of points raised, before going on to the 1949/50 engines later today.
Concerning Gossie’s engine. If we take the crankcase as the « baseline », then the engine should have the later head/comp screw assembly (T-shaped screw with thicker threaded stem) and it should also have a plastic tank. The crankcase looks like 52-55 production, whereas ED stopped using that head/comp screw in late 1951 and the alloy tank was replaced by plastic in late 1949. However, most original plastic tanks have shrunk by now, and all mine leak a little at the point where the backplate is slotted to take a wrench (there just isn’t enough overlap), so an alloy tank is preferable for flying. Fuel level obviously isn’t visible, but a 2-second squirt with a Valvespout gives about 20 seconds running! After that, it’s just a case of holding on for the appropriate number of seconds before you let go! Another good solution is a repro tank machined from Perspex, which gives the best of both worlds.

GH’s engines look about right. We’ll go into details later.

J-M Blackfoot’s engine is interesting. It’s an original « hybrid ». During the model transition period (Dec 51 / Jan 52), the factory switched to the new head and comp screw while they were still using up the last of their earlier crankcases. This is one of those engines.

J-M also reminded that I hadn’t mentioned the serial numbering logic and meanings. I honestly thought that anyone interested in ED would know all that. However, I had a look at the page posted by J-M, which is basically correct, except that I did notice a couple of significant errors. I quote:
« I've seen a number of MkII motors with the letter "C" at the end like the one above. Did this indicate the plunger cut-out type of which so few were made? ».
Amazing that the author doesn’t appear to be aware that the « C » suffix is simply a Comp Special crankcase. Perhaps he was confused by the fact that many parts are interchangeable with the Mk II (Penny Slot), which has given rise to some pretty unlikely combinations!

« There is little distinction between the 1940's and 1950's when stamped at the end of the engine code. You must have to know which decade they were made! »
This is only very partially true. At the transition from 1949 to 1950, the « 9 » in the serial number was actually replaced by « 50 » (two digits), specifically to avoid this confusion, and the factory continued using the two digits until 1953 (/50, /51, /52 and /53). In 1954 I think they considered that the period of possible ambiguity had expired, and they reverted to using just one digit for the year.

Finally, yesterday’s post was put together in a slight « alcoholic haze » and I forgot to mention that all early ED engines (1950 and earlier), not just Bees, are stamped « TESTED » in tiny characters, sometimes barely visible, usually on the lower surface of a mounting lug, or on the edge of the lug, like in the attached photo. ED stopped this stamping at just about the time the Racer was first released, and I often wonder whether they stopped because such characters would be totally invisible on the Racer’s chemically coated magnesium case...

Back later with the 1949/50 engines.
brokenenglish is offline Find More Posts by brokenenglish
RCG Plus Member
Old Nov 10, 2012, 11:03 AM
Registered User
Gluehand's Avatar
The windy west coast of Sweden
Joined Sep 2008
3,035 Posts
Another example of the very tiny "TEST" stamping, on this ED MkIII (here shown with the optional glow insert)
Gluehand is online now Find More Posts by Gluehand
Last edited by Gluehand; Nov 10, 2012 at 11:23 AM.
Reply With Quote
Old Nov 10, 2012, 04:13 PM
Sticks, Tissue & old Diesels
brokenenglish's Avatar
France, Centre, Amboise
Joined Nov 2011
1,718 Posts
Bzzzzzzzz....

Here are another couple of ED Bees, as promised.
There’s nothing sensational about these engines. The photos just show a 1949 Bee, exactly the way it should be, and a 1950 Bee, again, exactly the way it should be.
In comparison with the previously shown 1948 engine, the 1949 model simply has the S/N moved to the front of the crankcase (clearly visible), but retains the alloy tank.
The 1950 engine remained basically the same. The only significant difference being the plastic tank and, of course, the « year » digit, at the end of the serial number, became two digits, with the number remaining on the front of the case.
The years given and the stated differences are correct but, obviously, ED didn’t apply the changes on 31st December at midnight!
Next time, I’ll show the 1951 and 52-55 models, and this « transition period », covering both December and January, will be better illustrated.
I’m sure everyone will be familiar with the contemporary box, but I can’t resist the temptation to show the box as well, « just in case ». I really like this first generation of ED boxes. They remind me of 1972/3, when I found a new 1950 Bee in a toy shop in Brussels. The engine had been in stock for 22 years, and the owner sold it to me for half price, because the box had been nibbled by mice! I still have it...
brokenenglish is offline Find More Posts by brokenenglish
RCG Plus Member
Old Nov 10, 2012, 05:02 PM
Registered User
Gold Coast Australia.
Joined Jan 2005
2,536 Posts
Thanks for info on my BEE.
It does have numbers/letters on the bottom front of the crankcase from memory, but it's in the Macchi scale model that I did a build from scratch thread on FF section a couple of years back.
It's upright as it runs better that way so a bit hard to see the numbers etc. It's also packed away, but when I get around to it I'll take a look to see what I can see.
gossie is offline Find More Posts by gossie
Reply With Quote
Old Nov 10, 2012, 05:32 PM
Registered User
Gluehand's Avatar
The windy west coast of Sweden
Joined Sep 2008
3,035 Posts
Serial No written on the box of my '54 model....

Also, note 2 cyl.head screws shown on the box lid...."artistic freedom" or an echo from the early days...?


Gluehand is online now Find More Posts by Gluehand
Reply With Quote
Old Nov 11, 2012, 12:16 AM
Registered User
fiery's Avatar
Hervey Bay, Queensland, Australia
Joined Mar 2008
579 Posts
Black beauties ... the large and small

AE .2 cc and Aurora K700 7 cc
fiery is offline Find More Posts by fiery
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Category Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Discussion Need help with two diesel engines ! cosmin Engines 4 Apr 18, 2014 08:18 PM
Diesel Engines Aeromister Engines 8 Sep 01, 2009 08:17 AM
WTB-Model Diesel Fuel slogo Aircraft - Fuel - Airplanes (FS/W) 3 Nov 13, 2004 10:42 PM
scale model of engines dw1122 Life, The Universe, and Politics 2 Apr 23, 2004 06:43 AM
diesel engines wyflyer_55 Fuel Plane Talk 7 Apr 22, 2002 03:45 AM