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Old Oct 28, 2012, 07:21 AM
Bill Mohrbacher, MECA Fox Guy
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Beaver Falls, PA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Twin-Stack View Post
Brian, if you believe that Mike Clanford's engine book is Gospel, then you probably also believe in the tooth fairy and belong to the Flat Earth Society. Here is just one of his mistakes - the company that took Gordon Burford to court was not Davies-Charlton (with regard to their 1.49cc Sabre Diesel) as Clanford states, but North American Aviation (with regard to their F-86 Sabre jet fighter).
All while Johnny Brodbeck of K&B was quite quiet!
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Old Oct 28, 2012, 10:59 AM
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Adelaide, South Australia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Twin-Stack View Post
- the company that took Gordon Burford to court was not Davies-Charlton (with regard to their 1.49cc Sabre Diesel) as Clanford states, but North American Aviation (with regard to their F-86 Sabre jet fighter).
Actually it was CAC (Commonwealth Aircraft Corporation) who took Gordon to court but obviously pressured to do so by NAA seeing CAC were building Australia's version of the Sabre. I've always wondered if they thought some country might order 50 Sabres for their air force only to find 50 model engines turning up in a box .
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Old Oct 28, 2012, 04:52 PM
Sticks, Tissue & old Diesels
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France, Centre, Amboise
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Real engines have gotta beat documentation

Bob,
This will be my last post on this Frog 50 nonsense, so I’ll voluntarily leave the last word to you...
Firstly, your remark about my considering Mike’s book to be « gospel » is totally unjustified and, for me, just an easy « clever » remark... Mike knows that his book contains errors, but so do many of the references that you quote.
I just think that Mike is dead right concerning the various Frog 50s, and that’s exactly what I wrote.
Mike’s confusion concerning an Australian engine reminds of a some of the « New World » stuff I read about European engines...
So where’s the problem?
Well, the following text is only my opinion, OK!!!
In recent years, a lot of English model engine history has been written in Oz and North America, largely based on documentation and photos, etc.
While a lot of good stuff has been written, and documentation is obviously a good thing, you’re now claiming that something that was insufficiently documented at the time, can’t exist! Which is wrong and unacceptable.

So let’s stop waving articles and engine tests, and get down to real engines...
I hope you’ll see from the attached photographs that the differences between the Mk II and the Mk III are considerable (the Mk III crankcase is a lot bigger and there are obvious important internal differences).
I’ve shown the engine that you and myself agree is a Mk II (as stated by PGFC in your scan).
Now, have a look at the Mk III. Those differences can’t be considered « minor ». It isn’t « just another Mk II »!
The Mk III doesn’t fit the same bolt holes or bearer spacing. The crankcase is 1.5mm wider (not counting the strap) or 2mm wider (with the strap).
I also opened the MK III, to confirm my opinion that the strap was to accommodate big-end movement, and not just a strengthening of the earlier case. This was confirmed, which must mean that there are significant differences in the piston/cylinder/conrod setup.
Have you ever seen all these differences documented anywhere? I never have, and they’re considerable.
My opinion is that this engine wasn’t documented at the time which, if you’re trying to establish engine knowledge and history from documentation... is a problem.
Finally, as I wrote at the outset, we have a terminology problem. Old English aeromodellers have always considered this engine to be a Mk III (it really is very different). OK, it wasn’t documented, but if you still think that such differences can be called « just another Mk II », then I give up...
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Old Oct 28, 2012, 06:29 PM
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(Quote) "Bob, This will be my last post on this Frog 50 nonsense, so I’ll voluntarily leave the last word to you..."

Brian, thank you for the photo's because they confirm that you have been in error. What you have there is a Mk. I and a Mk. II, simple as that. The Mk. I (if it did come out the factory door like that) is probably a transitional engine, where they ran out of the shorter tanks. More likely is that someone during the last 50 years has retro-fitted it to get a longer engine run. You show a photo (top left) where you state that it is "The mutually agreed Mk. II" - I do not agree with that, as it is simply a Mk. I with a long tank fitted. Here's the clincher though - underneath that same photo, you state "This is precisely the engine that PGFC presents as the Mk II, in Twin-Stack's scanned article." Wrong ! If you look very closely at the photo's in Chinn's article and the FROG catalogue, you can actually SEE the ridges formed by the reinforcing "strap", both above and below the mounting lugs. This strap, according to you was only found on "the non-existent Mk. III" but in actual fact, there it is in both my photo's, with both labelled as Mk. II. Case closed.
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Old Oct 28, 2012, 10:04 PM
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RGU from eBay Germany
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Old Oct 29, 2012, 12:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Twin-Stack View Post
RGU from eBay Germany
The RGU Universal of 2,47cc was made by Friedrich Schmidt in München in 1956, also available as an assembly-kit. But this engine has been damaged I guess and then repaired with selfmade mounting plates. Not original in any case.
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Old Oct 29, 2012, 06:12 PM
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The Sabre debacle (Courtesy of John Goodall and Model Engine World).....
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Old Oct 30, 2012, 01:24 PM
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The windy west coast of Sweden
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The "Gasket-O-Matic" goes metal.... :)

Today I tried to cut a copper gasket in the "device" shown in #4189

After annealing the 0.3 mm sheet (also securing it with 2 screws), all worked just great...!!...

However, as this is a "free-hand" method, good lighting/eyes/patience is required to measure, pre-mark and cut with precision, i.e. this method woudn't be too well suited for mass production.
For one-offs it's great though, as the investments are minimal....

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Old Nov 04, 2012, 07:08 AM
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The windy west coast of Sweden
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Twin-Stack View Post
And from the same Swedish site, the rare 1955 Aquila Baby gear-reduction marine (with a slight mix-up with an Enya 19 Model 4002).......
Announcing: This was happily (and surprisingly) won by me...
Initially, I made the sensible decision not to bid at all, but close to the end I simply couldn't resist...

LINK

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Old Nov 04, 2012, 11:28 AM
F1B is ok.
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For RUG look also here: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...postcount=3151

Heinz
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Old Nov 06, 2012, 08:35 AM
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brokenenglish

I really feel it is sad that he has left RCG, he did make very nice contributions.
Let's hope he will return. I do.
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Old Nov 06, 2012, 02:50 PM
Good Better Best quest.
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Originally Posted by Reginald View Post
I really feel it is sad that he has left RCG, he did make very nice contributions.
Let's hope he will return. I do.
I dont think he posted that he was leaving RCG ,just not posting on the Frog 50 anymore. AFAIK.
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Old Nov 06, 2012, 08:43 PM
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Unfortunately Bob has closed his RCG account. Hopefully we can welcome him back later but if not he'll be sorely missed because of his fantastic contributions. It's mainly because of Bob that I've been able to gather hundreds of model engine test reports in one place.
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Old Nov 07, 2012, 01:49 AM
I like real wooden aeroplanes!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by downunder View Post
Unfortunately Bob has closed his RCG account. Hopefully we can welcome him back later but if not he'll be sorely missed because of his fantastic contributions. It's mainly because of Bob that I've been able to gather hundreds of model engine test reports in one place.
Excuse my puzzlement, but who is Bob? brokenenglish is called Brian and I only read his post as saying it was his last word on the Frog 50 argument???
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Old Nov 07, 2012, 03:45 AM
Sticks, Tissue & old Diesels
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France, Centre, Amboise
Joined Nov 2011
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Gentlemen,
Thanks for your concern. I certainly didn't intend to "disappear". Olmod's interpretation, above, is perfectly correct.
Bob regularly goes walkabout. He'll be back.
Brian
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