HobbyKing.com New Products Flash Sale
Reply
Thread Tools
Old Sep 24, 2012, 11:05 AM
Registered User
Canada, ON, Hamilton
Joined Oct 2005
2,469 Posts
no ether model diesel fuel, maybe?

Edubarca, see this info and if you try it, let us know how well it worked.

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_45...41/key_/tm.htm
post 1021
3 parts kerosene
1 part gasoline/petrol
2 parts motoroil

Go to this link, there are movies of the engine running with gasoline mixed together kerosene and oil : http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_10632106/tm.htm

Post 1033
I flew for about 25 minutes mostly high throttle and landed with 2/3 of a tank. I was guessing well over an hour, and that proved it. I only need 1/4 or 1/2oz of regular fuel to get it running. I'm working on a smaller auxiliary tank and a way to hold it on the airplane. Next is a cowl and crankcase oil.
Greg


And, a Canadian expert,
Andy Woitowicz
On YouTube as hopeso

http://www.youtube.com/results?searc....1.FcCqrNwUCNA

Andy W has a You Tube video showing a diesel running without ether.
Norvel .15 diesel, zero ether, 50 weight motor oil, Amsoil
Norvel .15 diesel, zero ether, 50 weight motor oil, Amsoil (0 min 57 sec)


and I now have Andy’s Norvel.
JohnAV8R is offline Find More Posts by JohnAV8R
Last edited by JohnAV8R; Nov 16, 2012 at 11:25 PM.
Reply With Quote
Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
Old Sep 24, 2012, 11:22 AM
Dieselized User
gkamysz's Avatar
Chicagoland
Joined Feb 2000
7,266 Posts
Running fuel without ether is possible once the engine is up to operating temperature. I've been running my FS-48 diesel without ether for years now. I did get the auxiliary tank setup with a valve and start/warmup is a simple process.

It's not going to be for everyone though. The needle is very touchy without ether(similar to running gasoline in a glow carb). The engine is temperature sensitive. That is, a long dive at idle may cool the engine enough that it won't throttle up. Running compression without ether is quite a bit higher than normal.

I still need to try the gasoline/kerosene blend. That might be ideal for what I'm doing.

Has AndyW flown any of the Norvels without ether? I know he's done a lot of bench running, but I found some issues only through flying.

For regular fuel john Deere starting fluid is the best. For all intents and purposes it's 100% ether the way we use it. DII is available in the form of cetane booster for diesel vehicles, just read the MSDS to be sure it's 100% nitrate compound. Some are diluted. A bottle of Amsoil ACB is under 10USD and will provide a lifetime supply. Common starting fluids may work. but some are only 30% ether and may not work well. The MSDS for these are not specific and usually set a range like 30-70% ether, so you don't even know what you have.

Greg
gkamysz is offline Find More Posts by gkamysz
Reply With Quote
Old Sep 24, 2012, 02:50 PM
Sic itur ad Astra
sparks59's Avatar
United Arab Emirates, Abu Dhabi, Abu Dhabi
Joined Aug 2009
1,603 Posts
It seems to me that you don't have too many options to choose from Ed, so it may be a case of hunting around and trying out whatever is available to him locally. Ether isn't supposed to be available here in the UAE by all accounts, but I found some starter fluid, not J.Deere, but it works ok (the ambient temp. here does help i'm sure. Good luck with it.
sparks
sparks59 is offline Find More Posts by sparks59
Reply With Quote
Old Sep 24, 2012, 04:53 PM
Registered User
Gluehand's Avatar
The windy west coast of Sweden
Joined Sep 2008
2,845 Posts
Thoroughbred

Here is a Super Tigre G15 RV, from about early 70's.
I did fly with this engine in the 80's, although not the way it was meant to...I used it in a couple of "sport" rc-aircraft, somewhat "old-schoolish" & slow ones..
Despite its "hot" porting, I found it surprisingly good with large-ish props.
As I didn't want to ruin that nice spinner assembly, I used an ordinary prop driver from a more "homely" G15, which fitted right away. Also, I bought a second backplate, milled it out slightly to take a ST "MAG" rc-carb, (Yes, there WAS a source of spares, back then...!)

All in all, a great engine...design & quality, as well as performance...
However, at its old age, I think it deserves a gentle treatment....

.
Gluehand is online now Find More Posts by Gluehand
Reply With Quote
Old Sep 24, 2012, 05:23 PM
Edubarca
Edubarca's Avatar
Colombia, South America
Joined Oct 2009
1,093 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnAV8R View Post
Edubarka, see this info and if you try it, let us know how well it worked.

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_45...41/key_/tm.htm
post 1021
3 parts kerosene
1 part gasoline/petrol
2 parts motoroil

Go to this link, there are movies of the engine running with gasoline mixed together kerosene and oil : http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_10632106/tm.htm

Post 1033
I flew for about 25 minutes mostly high throttle and landed with 2/3 of a tank. I was guessing well over an hour, and that proved it. I only need 1/4 or 1/2oz of regular fuel to get it running. I'm working on a smaller auxiliary tank and a way to hold it on the airplane. Next is a cowl and crankcase oil.
Greg


And, a Canadian expert,
Andy Woitowicz
On YouTube as hopeso

http://www.youtube.com/results?searc....1.FcCqrNwUCNA

Andy W has a You Tube video showing a diesel running without ether.
Norvel .15 diesel, zero ether, 50 weight motor oil, Amsoil
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_VA1R2SfswA

and I now have Andy’s Norvel.
Thanks a lot, I'll give it a try. However "motor oil" means automobile oil? For two stroke lawn mower engines? What SAE? Or can I still use castor oil. Thanks!!!
Edubarca is offline Find More Posts by Edubarca
Reply With Quote
Old Sep 24, 2012, 05:35 PM
Dieselized User
gkamysz's Avatar
Chicagoland
Joined Feb 2000
7,266 Posts
Motor oil means four stroke crankcase oil. For this application, two stroke oil would certainly be cleaner. Use high viscosity oils, doesn't matter if it's two stroke or crankcase oil. SAE40 (12.5cSt@100°C) or greater.

Modern castor oil engine specific products should blend with your kerosene and gasoline above freezing. First pressing castor may not blend at all without ether in the fuel.

Greg
gkamysz is offline Find More Posts by gkamysz
Reply With Quote
Old Sep 24, 2012, 05:41 PM
Edubarca
Edubarca's Avatar
Colombia, South America
Joined Oct 2009
1,093 Posts
Thanks a lot Greg, I'll try it and let you all know my results. I hope that at our elevation of 2.650 meters ASL it can work.
Edubarca is offline Find More Posts by Edubarca
Reply With Quote
Old Sep 25, 2012, 03:48 AM
Registered User
John Moore's Avatar
Southern Spain
Joined Nov 2003
231 Posts
Etherless fuel

The problem you will have is that to start your engine on etherless fuel it will be necessary to spin the prop over very fast with the use of a starter motor. This is definitely not recommended with the Mills ( or Miller ) 0.75.
You say that Ethyl Ether is ' banned ' in Columbia, a situation that I find hard to believe. More likely is that it's sale is controlled and restricted. I am sure that if you speak to your local pharmacy or Laboratory supply company and explained your requirement for a SMALL amount ( 1 L ) of Ether and fill in the necessary forms it would be possible to obtain some. Certainly that is what I have done in Spain. However be prepared to pay at least $30 a liter and keep the bottle in the freezer because at your altitude and temperatures it will evaporate very rapidly.
Or of course you could buy a can of John Deere starter fluid!.
As far as an anti knock agent is concerned, this is probably not necessary with the Mills. If required, use 2% of a commercial Diesel ignition improver, seems to work just as well as Amyl Nitrate.
John
John Moore is offline Find More Posts by John Moore
Reply With Quote
Old Sep 25, 2012, 03:54 AM
robinson727
USA, MS, Byhalia
Joined Nov 2010
114 Posts
diesel twin

Reginald-n-all..
I got the Jena to run (zippy ! Nice!) but after it chucked the prop off at me I found out there are issues with the prop driver. It uses a splined shaft with a groove for a snap ring to seat the prop driver. The snap ring was missing and the seller had put a soft wire clip on it so I wrote him that this was "unsat" and I thought he was peddeling junk.. He wrote back and he might help or I can return it which I am lothe to do from building parts for it...
Other things:
We got Gluehands spinner made for his WAF and then I did something really stupid.. I have wanted a small diesel twin for eons so I wrote CS and they are sending enough .075 internals to build one. Our single on Bugaboo is over a year old and hanging in there so hopefully these parts will be ok..

Question to you is this.. CS produced a 1.5 twin a while back, (Peng @ CS said about 100 units) and from a thread a long tme ago, if I remember correctly I thought you had one Reginald and had posted some pics of it on the list.. Any help there? BTW.. Have you ever had it apart to see how the crank was built? Ron (from MBI) sent us a suggestion to build a "Lobo Pup" twin and it's really a nice design and beautiffly built but I think to heavy for us.. maybe it's more of a display model so I need a bright idea for the bottom end.. FWIW: I saw this video from a fellow in the UK (Derek Giles) that built 3 of them and they are beautiful, exactally what I want to build but I have no idea how to contact him for help. If anybody has a bright idea, I'm all ears but here is the URL for the video.. very addictive, listen to the idle !!

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1418122

BTW, The CS steel Mills repro cyls. with hold down flange and screws (like 1.3 used) are out of production so we went with the late model .075 parts..(like the little Mills) Makes the case tricky but it should be fun and a long journey.. building an engine always is.
Al

ps: Peng at CS said they are coming out with a 1.8 twin next month..
robinson727 is offline Find More Posts by robinson727
Reply With Quote
Old Sep 25, 2012, 07:50 AM
Registered User
JackHiner's Avatar
Joined Jan 2005
703 Posts
Doctor Diesel (Eric Clutton) may have small CS twin diesels. At least he did recently. Jack
JackHiner is offline Find More Posts by JackHiner
Reply With Quote
Old Sep 25, 2012, 08:50 AM
Edubarca
Edubarca's Avatar
Colombia, South America
Joined Oct 2009
1,093 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Moore View Post
The problem you will have is that to start your engine on etherless fuel it will be necessary to spin the prop over very fast with the use of a starter motor. This is definitely not recommended with the Mills ( or Miller ) 0.75.
You say that Ethyl Ether is ' banned ' in Columbia, a situation that I find hard to believe. More likely is that it's sale is controlled and restricted. I am sure that if you speak to your local pharmacy or Laboratory supply company and explained your requirement for a SMALL amount ( 1 L ) of Ether and fill in the necessary forms it would be possible to obtain some. Certainly that is what I have done in Spain. However be prepared to pay at least $30 a liter and keep the bottle in the freezer because at your altitude and temperatures it will evaporate very rapidly.
Or of course you could buy a can of John Deere starter fluid!.
As far as an anti knock agent is concerned, this is probably not necessary with the Mills. If required, use 2% of a commercial Diesel ignition improver, seems to work just as well as Amyl Nitrate.
John
Thanks a lot John. Believe it or not,. Ether IS banned. I have tried: pharmacies, laboratories, hospitals, chemists, chemical dealers etc. etc. Not at drop is available!!! No matter the price!! I didn't know about the "starting fluid" for tractors. This area, I have not investigated and I will do it. There are other chemicals which are not banned but have restricted sales: Methanol, for example, I'm able to buy only one gallon per month I have to fill a form and present my ID. I have several friends who buy their respective gallon and thus we can make glow fuel. Acetone is under the same ruling. What do you think about the formula with gasoline as stated above? (And, Colombia is with an "O" not a "U"). Thanks again for your help and kindness John.
Edubarca is offline Find More Posts by Edubarca
Reply With Quote
Old Sep 25, 2012, 09:38 AM
Sticks, Tissue & old Diesels
brokenenglish's Avatar
France, Centre, Amboise
Joined Nov 2011
1,511 Posts
Eduardo, sometime within the next few days (the weather forecast is good next weekend), I'm going to try the mixtures that have been suggested.
However, if you're a diesel "beginner", I don't think you should be conducting research into possible advanced fuel formulas.
Stay with the basic and time-honoured beginners' mixture: i.e. simply equal parts of ether, kerosene and oil. That way you won't have any problems. So your only problem is finding ether, and tractor starting fluid seems a likely solution.
Finally, remember this, there are only two essential ingredients, ether and oil. A 50/50 mixture of ether and oil was the recommended fuel mix for several early diesels and all sports diesels will run perfectly OK on that. However, adding kerosene, to make up the three equal parts, gives slightly more power and is less expensive (it's the cheapest of the 3 ingredients). The various additives like amyl nitrate or nitrite, or DII, help high performance but, running a Mills in a sport plane, you certainly don't need anything other than the equal parts mixture. Get that approach "up and running" first, before you start considering exotic stuff!
And finally again! the kerosene ingredient can also be truck diesel fuel from the pump or white spirit, you won't notice any difference except the smell! I use the "lamp oil" sold for household heating stoves.
I'll report back on the gasoline/kerosene mixture.
brokenenglish is online now Find More Posts by brokenenglish
RCG Plus Member
Old Sep 25, 2012, 01:22 PM
Registered User
Reginald's Avatar
Belgium
Joined Aug 2004
3,510 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by robinson727 View Post
Reginald-n-all..
I got the Jena to run (zippy ! Nice!) but after it chucked the prop off at me I found out there are issues with the prop driver. It uses a splined shaft with a groove for a snap ring to seat the prop driver. The snap ring was missing and the seller had put a soft wire clip on it so I wrote him that this was "unsat" and I thought he was peddeling junk.. He wrote back and he might help or I can return it which I am lothe to do from building parts for it...
Other things:
We got Gluehands spinner made for his WAF and then I did something really stupid.. I have wanted a small diesel twin for eons so I wrote CS and they are sending enough .075 internals to build one. Our single on Bugaboo is over a year old and hanging in there so hopefully these parts will be ok..

Question to you is this.. CS produced a 1.5 twin a while back, (Peng @ CS said about 100 units) and from a thread a long tme ago, if I remember correctly I thought you had one Reginald and had posted some pics of it on the list.. Any help there? BTW.. Have you ever had it apart to see how the crank was built? Ron (from MBI) sent us a suggestion to build a "Lobo Pup" twin and it's really a nice design and beautiffly built but I think to heavy for us.. maybe it's more of a display model so I need a bright idea for the bottom end.. FWIW: I saw this video from a fellow in the UK (Derek Giles) that built 3 of them and they are beautiful, exactally what I want to build but I have no idea how to contact him for help. If anybody has a bright idea, I'm all ears but here is the URL for the video.. very addictive, listen to the idle !!

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1418122

BTW, The CS steel Mills repro cyls. with hold down flange and screws (like 1.3 used) are out of production so we went with the late model .075 parts..(like the little Mills) Makes the case tricky but it should be fun and a long journey.. building an engine always is.
Al

ps: Peng at CS said they are coming out with a 1.8 twin next month..
Not sure what twin you are talking about, I have only one or two CS made engines, was the Boddington twin made by CS ? I have that one.
Reginald is offline Find More Posts by Reginald
Reply With Quote
Old Sep 25, 2012, 04:34 PM
Registered User
John Moore's Avatar
Southern Spain
Joined Nov 2003
231 Posts
Reginald asked " was the Boddington twin made by CS ?"

All of David's "MILLS" were made by CS
John
John Moore is offline Find More Posts by John Moore
Reply With Quote
Old Sep 25, 2012, 10:45 PM
Registered User
fiery's Avatar
Hervey Bay, Queensland, Australia
Joined Mar 2008
525 Posts
PARRA WASP 1.5 ccm

Just released and now available:
fiery is offline Find More Posts by fiery
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Category Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Discussion Need help with two diesel engines ! cosmin Engines 4 Apr 18, 2014 07:18 PM
Diesel Engines Aeromister Engines 8 Sep 01, 2009 07:17 AM
WTB-Model Diesel Fuel slogo Aircraft - Fuel - Airplanes (FS/W) 3 Nov 13, 2004 09:42 PM
scale model of engines dw1122 Life, The Universe, and Politics 2 Apr 23, 2004 05:43 AM
diesel engines wyflyer_55 Fuel Plane Talk 7 Apr 22, 2002 02:45 AM