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Old Sep 11, 2012, 04:34 PM
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Gluehand's Avatar
The windy west coast of Sweden
Joined Sep 2008
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The "mystery engine"

Quote:
Originally Posted by robinson727 View Post
So who built it, any idea?
That's part of the mystery.........and it's a somewhat sad story, as the previous owner is seriously demented, not able to tell us anything....(a terrible fate...)
The engine was purchased from his wife, who sold out parts of his stuff....
Among many other things, this man did build engines, so it could well be built by him, BUT as he also spent much time travelling to various contests (soaring, rc-scale etc...), this engine could have been picked up anywhere on the planet.....
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Old Sep 11, 2012, 06:04 PM
robinson727
USA, MS, Byhalia
Joined Nov 2010
127 Posts
That's sad Gluehand.. My Mom passed with Alzheimers (dementia) some time ago & it's an ugly way to go. Me? I'm not going to do that..

So have you ever run the little engine? I wonder how it does..

Sim. check went well today and I'm beat, this was a long day. Cold beer in hand, I'm on vacation for a coupla weeks now. Jena will show up so I can get it's parts done for Bugaboo and I'm going to finish up this Robinhood 80 I picked up at the hobby shop a few weeks ago..They were going to toss it as part of an estate sale purchase, the owner had passed many years ago. It was un-finished and un-loved, in really bad shape so the owners gave it to me for cheap. Structurally complete now and repaired, I'm going to steal Gluehands green and yellow scheme from his Smoggie. I have a PAW 10cc diesel for it but flight test will probably be a 26cc gasser to save $$$ on fuel..
More in a bit.. I will post some pics later on tonight.
Al




Quote:
Originally Posted by Gluehand View Post
That's part of the mystery.........and it's a somewhat sad story, as the previous owner is seriously demented, not able to tell us anything....(a terrible fate...)
The engine was purchased from his wife, who sold out parts of his stuff....
Among many other things, this man did build engines, so it could well be built by him, BUT as he also spent much time travelling to various contests (soaring, rc-scale etc...), this engine could have been picked up anywhere on the planet.....
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Old Sep 11, 2012, 06:16 PM
robinson727
USA, MS, Byhalia
Joined Nov 2010
127 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reginald View Post
If I have something fitting it's free but what model needle and what about dimensions of that Jena the only Jena I've got is the U-boat
Can you send us a pic of "Das Boot" ??? I have never seen one..
Al
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Old Sep 11, 2012, 08:01 PM
robinson727
USA, MS, Byhalia
Joined Nov 2010
127 Posts
I forgot to add this on earlier today.. Maybe we should have a "T" shirt made :

"Per cogo, non per mico"

"By compression, not by spark"
Al
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Old Sep 11, 2012, 08:14 PM
robinson727
USA, MS, Byhalia
Joined Nov 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brokenenglish View Post
Al, this is just to say that, over the last 50-odd years, PAW have a reputation of being very good if ever you have a problem.
Brian
No worries.. I know if it's an issue they will help make it right..
"No negative waves"
Al
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Old Sep 12, 2012, 01:35 AM
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Belgium
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Zeiss-Jena

Quote:
Originally Posted by robinson727 View Post
Can you send us a pic of "Das Boot" ??? I have never seen one..
Al
The engine's name is Pionier ser.nr. 159
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Old Sep 12, 2012, 02:54 AM
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Gluehand's Avatar
The windy west coast of Sweden
Joined Sep 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robinson727 View Post
So have you ever run the little engine? I wonder how it does..
Hi Al,
The engine was never finished....watch the unfinished crankshaft...!...and there's no piston/conrod either...
Obviously the builder got stuck when facing the question how to get the pieces together, all from underneath...
Doubtless an adventurous project with the last chapter missing....

However, the high standard of craftsmanship (just look at the castings..!) indicates that this was probably not the builder's "first engine"...
I bet he had SOME kind of idea how to design the last bits....but how.......and who was he...

--------------------------

Jena 1 cc:
When you receive your Jena, check if the hole for the spraybar is drilled to 3.0 mm.....if so, a Webra spraybar will be a perfect fit...


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Old Sep 12, 2012, 04:54 AM
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John Moore's Avatar
Southern Spain
Joined Nov 2003
232 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reginald View Post
I believe Clarence Lee was the first to make this concept this is my Lee Sidewinder
The photographs of Tony Youngs twin drive diesel powered unit were taken in 1956 a good few years before Clarences single drive glow powered unit appeared.
The advantage of this twin drive unit, especially for free flight, is that both props stop at the same time, avoiding the spiral dive that a one side engine out causes.
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Old Sep 12, 2012, 05:48 AM
robinson727
USA, MS, Byhalia
Joined Nov 2010
127 Posts
Hi Gluehand.. I had noticed the casting on the previous pic.. very nice.. So you have the throw established on the crank, the counterweight hasn't been trimmed because he ddn't know the weight of the con rod and piston.. So with what you have, finishing it is do-able. You know the stroke and deck height so a piston and then a rod would complete the internals.. Howza 'bout lubrication of the main bearing? Any kind of chamfer around the bushing for the crank web to allow a little lubrication to get up front? Cool little engine.. It want's to run.

Jena 1 cc:
When you receive your Jena, check if the hole for the spraybar is drilled to 3.0 mm.....if so, a Webra spraybar will be a perfect fit...


OK, I will.. It shipped so should be here in a coupla days.. There was also a guy on EB selling small bore carby's.. A guess but there was 4 in the group and it looked like 2 might work on the Mk 17. pics when they show up.
This morning I have to go to downtown Memphis to pick up our homebuilt from the upholsters, a Kolb Firestar Mk2 .. We bought it wrecked last summer and my son Christopher (14) and I rebuilt it last winter/spring/summer, she's about done.
Then I can get back to the important stuff.. diesel powerd model aircraft !!
Hope everybody has a great day, pics below of Katie and Bugaboo
Al


[/QUOTE]
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Old Sep 12, 2012, 05:52 AM
robinson727
USA, MS, Byhalia
Joined Nov 2010
127 Posts
Reginald,
That's wild.. It really does look like a submarine !! I'm going to put that one on my Christmas list, I really like it...
Thanks for the pics,
Al
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Old Sep 12, 2012, 06:03 AM
robinson727
USA, MS, Byhalia
Joined Nov 2010
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Oh, and Gluehand, I forgot.. Obviously it's going to need a 2 piece con rod with a "stepped" cap & screws for assy. and a bushing on the big end for sure. Not hard but I think sealing the bottom end is going to be tricky.
Sure is a neat looking little engine, have you measured the bore and stroke for a disp. estimate? Can you imagine showing up at a SAM contest with it? Way cool !!
Al
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Old Sep 12, 2012, 08:55 AM
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Belgium
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robinson727 View Post
Reginald,
That's wild.. It really does look like a submarine !! I'm going to put that one on my Christmas list, I really like it...
Thanks for the pics,
Al
Good luck finding one they do'nt appear too often for sale espescially since German collectors tend to specialise on their own makes. The casting is magnesium so very corrosive and many I have seen have been man-handled during " cleaning " by using a metal brush (NEVER use that on a casting !) resulting in fading away the Zeiss-Jena and Lehrbetrieb lettering. Took me years to find this decent one.
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Old Sep 12, 2012, 11:32 AM
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Canada, ON, Hamilton
Joined Oct 2005
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Reginald, thanks for the “heads up” on using the metal brush.

“ The casting is magnesium so very corrosive and many I have seen have been man-handled during " cleaning " by using a metal brush (NEVER use that on a casting !) ’’.

As a kid I didn’t know any better (what kid really does?) and I use to use a wire rotary brush and electric drill to polish the head on my Fox .35’s. I never knew that there were solvents to remove the old burned on castor. At the time, a fresh look seemed to make the old Fox always look better. The black head combat special soon had a lighter polished look.
John
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Old Sep 12, 2012, 01:40 PM
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Belgium
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnAV8R View Post
Reginald, thanks for the “heads up” on using the metal brush.

“ The casting is magnesium so very corrosive and many I have seen have been man-handled during " cleaning " by using a metal brush (NEVER use that on a casting !) ’’.

As a kid I didn’t know any better (what kid really does?) and I use to use a wire rotary brush and electric drill to polish the head on my Fox .35’s. I never knew that there were solvents to remove the old burned on castor. At the time, a fresh look seemed to make the old Fox always look better. The black head combat special soon had a lighter polished look.
John
I do not even put magnesium in the U-son yeeears ago I had an Arden casting litteraly desintegrating in it. I had several Ardens and some did show some white metal surface powder, wrote to Clarence Lee about that and he believed this was caused by certain protective oils. And yes early on I did the same metal polishing on a drill. I only do use U-son nowadays and I always do have a smile when reading about all those crockpot users no offence ment of course I would have to look up what crockpot really means but I do have an idea. If you can afford it get yourself a U-son and make your life easy. Point final. Of course, beeing a collector/restorer I cannot go without U-son unlike modellers that occasionally want to clean things up.
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Old Sep 12, 2012, 02:18 PM
robinson727
USA, MS, Byhalia
Joined Nov 2010
127 Posts
Hi ya Reginald-n- all..
Well.. I will probably never see a Pioneer but it never hurts to think positive !!
I thought the same thing about the 1cc Jena last year.. I was so angry with myself for missing Gluehands reccomendation on the one for sale in the UK... Then another one popped up.. You never know.. That's what makes this so much fun.
So... if you were going to fly it Reginald.. what would you put it in?
Al



Quote:
Originally Posted by Reginald View Post
Good luck finding one they do'nt appear too often for sale espescially since German collectors tend to specialise on their own makes. The casting is magnesium so very corrosive and many I have seen have been man-handled during " cleaning " by using a metal brush (NEVER use that on a casting !) resulting in fading away the Zeiss-Jena and Lehrbetrieb lettering. Took me years to find this decent one.
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