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Old Jul 04, 2011, 06:23 AM
I like real wooden aeroplanes!
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South-west France
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Originally Posted by Chas View Post
T, here's the Toreador, with an image also of the smaller Picador (similar construction)...good phliars both.
We have quite a few Toreadors in Toronto!
Yes, that's them OK, good solid structural design - two hefty spars, decent leading edge, split sheet trailing edge with a solid extension. That looks like an AM10 in the Picador.

Slightly off topic, but I wonder how other peoples views of the four major UK kit brands of the time match up - or contrast - with my own recollections, which can be summed up as follows:

Mercury; sound designs, good quality wood and accurate parts, maybe a slight tendency to over-engineering meaning they could be a bit heavier than necessary, but resulted in strong, reliable models.

Veron; excellent designs by Phil Smith, decent kitting although the wood quality sometimes was a bit variable.

FROG; quite a lot of the FROG designs were refreshingly "different", nice kitting although they did have a tendency to never use 1 part where 5 would do, made for interesting building though and generally the parts fitted well! As a result the models were pretty substantial, but some really good looking designs.

Keil Kraft; some good flying models, but sometimes the kits were let down by somewhat inaccurate parts and variable wood quality.

Of course, there were variations due to "production line problems" - Friday Night syndrome as it used to be called in the car industry - I do recall one Mercury kit where most of the wood was of "floorboard" spec!
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Old Jul 04, 2011, 01:23 PM
Voices through wires? Ha!
Chas's Avatar
Joined Feb 2003
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Great assessment... I do think that Mercury had better designs all round (Dave Platt did a lot) the Marvin knocked spots off KK for example..I think this Marvin has extended wingspan though..
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Old Jul 04, 2011, 01:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZEROSKIN76 View Post
ill get some acetone in the morning
I do not know what I am talking about. Something in the back of my mind is still yelling the anodizing might not like acetone .Probably wrong.
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Old Jul 04, 2011, 02:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barry wilson View Post
Something in the back of my mind is still yelling the anodizing might not like acetone .
Yeah...to be safe, I would have removed the anodized part(s) - using heat if needed - before soaking the engine in acetone...



On the other hand: A cylinder, or head, where the the anodizing has faded the 'natural' way, i.e. by numerous wipings with fuel-soaked rags, looks just beautiful......now that's my personal view, of course.....


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Old Jul 04, 2011, 06:39 PM
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Auckland New Zealand
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Mills .25cc

Some years ago I was lucky enough to visit Old Warden and see the Shuttleworth Collection, They were not flying but there were model a/c there and also model sales. In a tent selling engines was David Banks with these little Mills .25cc,well I just had to have one.
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Old Jul 04, 2011, 07:48 PM
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Fortunately acetone will not affect anodizing on aluminum. Solvents have no affect, but a caustic solution will though.
I remember several guys using acetone to clean their anodized parts prior to using locktite etc on them when reassembling them. It didn't affect the aluminum any.
Some manufacturers clean the anodized parts with acetone before they assemble them too.
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Old Jul 04, 2011, 11:11 PM
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I had converted one of my Drone engines over to RC using a Thunder Tiger GP15 carb on it and a Fox .15 muffler as well. It actually ran really well like that, much better than I expected too. Of course the RPM range is somewhat narrow though as the engine doesn't really rev up all that high.

I used a Master Airscrew 13x6 prop along with Davis Diesel Development Fuel. With the RC conversion and muffler it sort of behaves like it is just a touch over compressed now. But earlier when i ran it without a muffler and no RC carb on it, it tended to act a little under compressed with a 12x8 prop. So I think that now it probably ought to be just right with the 12x8 prop on it.







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Old Jul 05, 2011, 01:25 AM
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Thanx Chas; fairly contemporary for the time, many US designs similar. At that time I was building a Zilch X-Pendable, with a separate stab/elevator on a longer fuse. It eventually found blacktop after the tail left formation...

Not too many Brit kits got into our area: I had to go to the UK to get my f/f Matador, though I did get a c/l Pony(?) which we used as a trainer with a Webra 1.5. I still have the plans for the Matador, I plan to build another soon, it was a GREAT model!
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Old Jul 05, 2011, 05:37 AM
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Toreador

the plane I want most

but I cant have , I dont have a hand launcher , and on the first inverted landing I did ,,,,,I would wipe the needle out , its for gentlemen not hackers

, also I never get my tanks right so Im always adjusting them , and that tank is inside , another is that a muffler does not look good,, and also uniflow with muffler pressure looks cluttered , I dont have a spinner ?
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Old Jul 05, 2011, 06:16 AM
I like real wooden aeroplanes!
Sundancer's Avatar
South-west France
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Come on now 687, problems exist to be overcome!

No hand launcher? A little ramp with a pull out peg on the end of a long string is all you need. It only needs to be a very little ramp, as these models will VTO.

Inverted landing breaks the needle? Not if you fit a piano wire protector as we always used to do.

Need to fiddle with the tank? It's a sidewinder and the tank is mounted between the bearers, so the tank centre HAS to be level with the needle. Everything else should be taken care of by using a conventional stunt tank layout.

Mufflers, pressure etc. - never used 'em in the old days, never needed them, couldn't fit one anyway to a 360 degree ported, sub-piston induction motor like the AM35, not without killing it completely.
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Old Jul 05, 2011, 06:24 AM
Voices through wires? Ha!
Chas's Avatar
Joined Feb 2003
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...and with that gorgeous fin, also taking George's advice about the NV protector, you should land inverted! Seriously, buy a commercial metal tank if there are management problems; find a site next to a Rolling Mill where nobody will hear your open exhaust; and if Tower Hobbies won't send you a spinner, I will ! Doesn't it look sharp with that quasi-tail paint scheme? It is really "chunky", quite a thick wing section, lots of area...should be a relaxing flyer, not too fast or hairy....go on, you know you want it!
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Old Jul 05, 2011, 03:42 PM
Time for me to Fly...
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United States, MI, Fenton
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Hey, Earl. That's a cool modification you did to the old Drone. ("the old Drone".... That sounds like a derogatory name for someone.)
When you get around to it, I'd like to hear what RPM you get out of the 12X8 you're contemplating on running.
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Old Jul 05, 2011, 03:49 PM
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Thanks.
when I first made my adapter, I had unscrewed the intake venturi off one of the engines, and found that it was threaded 5/16x32. But after making a adapter, much to my dismay I found it was really supposed to be 5/16x24 threaded. Someone many years ago had custom made a larger bore intake venturi but threaded it wrong for some unknown reason. so I then made the second adapter properly threaded of course. I then found that the Thunder Tiger GP15 carb has a clearance issue with the engine and muffler. But after some careful fitting work I got it to just clear OK. I used a short extension wire on the needle valve to get it out from the muffler. The idle speed screw isn't really accessable with the engine running though as it is almost touching the engine and muffler clamp and is under the cooling fins there too. Using a carb with a straight out needle valve instead of being abgled back would work better, but the TT carb was cheap and already in hand at this time.




I will likely be testing it out this weekend again. I am thinking a 12x8 wide blade prop might be better. But I need to check and see what 12x8 and other 13x6 props I have handy I can try on the engine. I have quite a few props, but unfortunately they usually are reamed out a little for other engines and don't fit the Drone of course.
But here is a video of the RC conversion when I test ran the engine:
Drone .29 Model Diesel RC engine 01.MOV (1 min 43 sec)


and here is a video when I ran it with a 12x8 Master Airscrew Scimitar prop a while back as a regular non-RC engine. This prop didn't load the engine quite as much as the MA 13x6 prop I used above with the RC conversion.
Test running a Drone .29 cu. in. model diesel engine orginally made in 1947 (1 min 42 sec)
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Old Jul 06, 2011, 04:15 AM
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Hi

I would really like one,, and as you say the problems can be overcome , and I



like the paint scheme on that one in the picture and I have 2off 2.5 cc diesels



the spinner sort of makes the nose look like a real controliner

There was a real good thread in the Controline section about a Picador build but it stopped, that Nylon covering is strong
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Old Jul 06, 2011, 05:51 AM
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Earl

Nice video well done , give me some idea of the Drone power , what sort of model can it pull around, 36 inch , 15 type model
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