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Old Jun 20, 2009, 07:49 PM
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Diesel 1 ccm

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gluehand
Jack and Blackfoot,
Those Super Tigre diesels are really nice, and high quality too.....I have flown quite a lot with a G15RV with a MAG throttle....the old ST:s are really fine engines.
The Taipan looks like a fine engine too, although they weren't available in my corner of the globe, so I don't know much about them....


Early diesel experiences
I'm not 100% sure, but I think the first diesel I ever saw/heard was a WAF-1, a high quality 1 cc diesel by Walter Fritsch, Berlin.

Mid 50's it must have been, and I was just about too young to handle a combustion engine (I grew fast though... )

In retrospect, I understand that this engine isn't the most well known, as the production figures couldn't compete with the Webras etc, but in my home town though, the WAF was very well established, with a good reputation among modelers at the time, owned by many.
Probably because it was warmly recommended and eagerly sold by our local LHS.
If asking modelers from other places, surprisingly few seem to remember this engine.

Not beeing a particularily hot performer, it was known as a "last forever" engine, and it was easy to start and handle, even for beginners...a reliable long-stroke diesel...

As it happened, I never bought a Waf-1, as other engines eventually "came my way" (Mc Coy .049 glow, Webra 1.5 S "Record", ED Bee, etc...), and the economy didn't allow a young kid buying too many engines - so when I many years later found a WAF-1, it felt like "coming back".
Among my old diesels, I'm particularily happy over this one...and today I still find it just as good as we did 50 years ago, i.e. no glorified memories here...
I Have Interes
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Old Jun 20, 2009, 08:44 PM
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I was so spoiled by the S.T. G-30 that I never gave the more powerfull G-20 2.5 cc diesel a chance. Later I liked the Webra Mach II so much the G-20 just set in the box. The G-30 and Webra were both used in U/C and R/C single channel. None had R/C carbs. I liked the rear needle valve on the G-30. The Webra saw a lot of duty from 1966-69 when I lived in Hawaii. An original bi-plane for R/C. For U/C a Flite Streak Jr. and one of the Veco models maybe a Warrior, Brave or such. Also an original sport scale model. There was a local hobby shop that sold diesel fuel. Jack
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Old Jun 20, 2009, 09:37 PM
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Nice diesel collections

TLyttle, keep the jewels, they’re your good memories.

Jack, you have a nice collection. ST G20D I didn’t have, but the glow instead. Should have kept it. I didn’t know OS made a .15D.

Rather amazing to have a ST G20-15 turn a 12x6 and using only 10% oil . That’s a high torque engine.

JMP, a Jaguar at 13….spoiled. I had to settle for a little Cox back then. On the hand, I probably wouldn’t have had much luck back then, as I had no one to help me. Somewhere in my stash, I still have a Top Flite Peacemaker kit…haven’t looked at it in years. The French Micron diesels are new to me.

Gluehand, nice WAF-1. You kept it in nice condition.

Warren, thanks for the Pinocchio plans; nice little bipe. Now if only the Lancer was out of the way…..

Rudo 07, do you have any Barbini B38 pictures for us? Sounds like [no pun intended] a very strong little engine.

I came across the following information.

Rebirth of British icon-Oliver Tiger Production

There's a thread on these reproductions, or are they semi original? Tom Ridley says that, “ We are producing: Mk111 @ 155 (both versions), MK 1V @ 155, MKV @ 210”,

http://controlline.org.uk/phpBB2/vie...=asc&&start=75

Anyone have one of these? Tom didn’t say if R/C carbs were available or not.

Does anyone know if the Oliver Twin (1980?) ever went into production? Looked back then, but was told it wasn’t ready.
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Old Jun 20, 2009, 09:57 PM
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John,
I posted about the Barbini B38 with pics here :- http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...9&postcount=27 , have recorded 12,950rpm on comercial fuel with nitrate on the 7x5" wood zinger, I useually use home brew old english mix and get around 12,000- 12,300 rpm depending on the day. They ocasionaly turn up on the auction site NIB but fetch US$250+ regularly. Gordon Burford did a run of reproductions that are great too , CS also did some reproductions, but these may not be up to par.
Stewart
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Old Jun 21, 2009, 10:49 AM
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Among the "classified" cathegories, none of them feel "right" for vintage- and related items.....so I take the oppurtunity, linking to it HERE , where the vintage people are, should anyone be interested....

Provided there is an interest, I'm clearing out some bits & pieces, replacing them with stuff that is more likely to be used...."refining", you may call it...



.
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Old Jun 21, 2009, 11:24 AM
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United States, OH, Galena
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnAV8R
JMP, a Jaguar at 13….spoiled. I had to settle for a little Cox back then. On the hand, I probably wouldn’t have had much luck back then, as I had no one to help me. Somewhere in my stash, I still have a Top Flite Peacemaker kit…haven’t looked at it in years. The French Micron diesels are new to me.
I don't remember the prices, but the Jaguar was no dearer than the Taifun or Webra, it was probably not more expensive than the Baby Bee, plus fuel was definitely cheaper and MUCH easier to come by in a small town (also no battery was required). No problem making fuel one self, ether was available over the counter at any pharmacist, many used regular automotive oil, and stove/lamp kerosene. Most modelers flew diesels anyway.
One of my friends still flies his Top Flite Peacemaker of over 30 years regularly with a Merco 35...
Mine is long gone.
The Micron engines always had a reputation for ease of operation, good performance and long life. But they were more costly than the German engines. I'll post more pictures of my other Microns later.
About the B.38 Barbini, it one of the regrets I have, not to have bought one when they were current. Well, the AM 10 and MP Jet 1cc will have to do.
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Old Jun 21, 2009, 03:05 PM
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I've found it !!

I really should organise my old engines one day ....reading the posts about the Barbini B38, I knew that I have one somewhere....but there were also replicas mentioned, from Burford and CS, making me curious what version I might have.....just need to find the thing... ...which I finally did, just as I bought it, around 1985-86. (price was in the $20-25 region...) No original box, but the instruction leaflet was there. To me it looks to be an original engine (or...?)
I wonder, was this engine produced during a long period...?...after all, I bought it "new" in the mid 80's...or is it of an older stock...?

Nice looking and weighing in at 54 grams, I'm sure that I'm going to run it in and use it, sooner or later....E-bay can wait...


.
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Old Jun 21, 2009, 09:00 PM
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Thats an original engine , Mr Barbini first produced them around 1954 at age 38 , hence the ID of B38 . He did further production runs in the following years, the last being about 1980 , both my examples are from this last run as is yours.
They are a litlle cranky to start till run in, which will take an hour or so, once run in they start easily hot or cold without the need to fiddle with the compression or mixture , just prime flip n go.
Stewart
Mr Barbini also produced a 2.5cc in both glow and diesel , plain and ballraced includeing a needle roller bigend this was the B40* a writeup is on Ron Chernich's engine site. http://www.modelenginenews.org/cardfile/B40.html
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Old Jun 22, 2009, 01:45 AM
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John, the G-30 I got in the late 1950's. The G-20, O. S. 15D and Webra were purchased in the 1960's. I got rid of all 4 engines sometime after the early 1970's. Like other I should have held on to these engines. I got back into diesels in 1995. Jack
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Old Jun 22, 2009, 02:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JackHiner
John, the G-30 I got in the late 1950's. The G-20, O. S. 15D and Webra were purchased in the 1960's. I got rid of all 4 engines sometime after the early 1970's. Like other I should have held on to these engines. I got back into diesels in 1995. Jack
Well, I also sold my ETA 15 MkI about the same time
Back in 1956, I was given an Allouchery Eclair 1.25cc by an old local modeler. I never could start it, so finally threw it away. Been biting my fingers ever since...
I recently obtained another one from a friend and found out that the needle valve goes from fully closed to fully open in exactly 1/2 turn - it has a flat on one side (like a D drill bit), not the now usual taper... (these were evidently early ones, later ones had the regular tapered NV.)
See here for more on the Allouchery engines:
http://www.modelenginenews.org/ (->Engines->Finder->Allouchery 1,25)
and :
http://www.modelenginenews.org/gallery/p12.html (Go down to the 7th)
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Old Jun 22, 2009, 03:53 PM
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JMP blackfoot, I was not aware of the Allouchery diesels. The look nice. I was aware of Micron diesels. I understand the Drone was based on the Micron 5 cc fixed compresion diesel. I have a couple of Drones the ball bearing version. A couple in bad shape and needed some work. Now run well. Much better with variable compression. I wanted an Oliver Tiger in the late 1950's but never had the money. Almost got an ETA in the 1960's but the price was a bit much. Here are two photos of my Drone BB diesels. Jack
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Old Jun 22, 2009, 09:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JackHiner
JMP blackfoot, I was not aware of the Allouchery diesels. The look nice. I was aware of Micron diesels. I understand the Drone was based on the Micron 5 cc fixed compresion diesel. I have a couple of Drones the ball bearing version. A couple in bad shape and needed some work. Now run well. Much better with variable compression. I wanted an Oliver Tiger in the late 1950's but never had the money. Almost got an ETA in the 1960's but the price was a bit much. Here are two photos of my Drone BB diesels. Jack
I would love to have a Drone (the BB version). I saw some for sale at the swap shop in Toledo earlier this year, so will get one next time.
I understand that they are more powerful than the Micron.
I have two Micron 5cc, one each of the upright (droit) and of the inverted (inversé) types.
You may or may not know that they are meant to be mounted such that the intake is pointing down, I guess to avoid any chance of flooding.
Are you aware of this very informative article ? :
http://www.modelenginenews.org/faq/fc_diesel_ops.html
Happy flying.
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Old Jun 23, 2009, 11:07 AM
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JMP blackfoot, I have seen the article on fixed compression diesel after I had run the Drone BB on fixed compression with modern fuel. I went to variable compression heads for easy of use with different fuels and props. One of the things I noticed on the DroneBB versions was a variation from engine to engine of exhast open duration. 100, 115 and 120 degrees on the engines I measured. I have two with 120 degrees and they are more powerful. Best engine with 120 degrees turns an APC 13/7 Sport prop at 6,800 - 6,900 rpm and on ocassion hits 7,000 rpm. The Drone with 100 degrees turns 6,000 - 6,100 with same prop same day and same fuel. I did not know about running the Micron 5 cc fixed compression heads with intake facing down. Jack
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Old Jun 23, 2009, 12:03 PM
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From the same excellent site (http://www.modelenginenews.org/) ->Engines->Finder->Micron 5cc FC diesel.
To be honest, I haven't really run either of my Micron 5cc, and I was so glad to discover the article. I had tried short runs with home made fuel, but did not insist.
Now, I feel much more confident.
The closest I have been to a Micron flying a model was in 1989, when I organised a Record trial for R/C straight line speed. A French record did not exist at the time, and a team of three modelers of which I was wanted to remedy this state of affairs.
As a member of the French "4A" - AKA SAM70 - I knew that the French Freeflight straight-line speed record had first been set in 1945 by Max Plan with his model "Griffon" powered by a Micron 5cc, at around 45 km/h average speed over the 50 meter two-way course. By the way this model did take-off from the ground, it had a timer to change tailplane incidence for the speed run and again for the glide after motor cut. Quite an achievement!
I also knew that 4A members Michel Pierrard and Pierre Dupin had built an R/C Griffon with Micron 5cc power.
We arranged that the first speed record attempt be run by this model over the 200m FAI course. Thus the first ever French R/C straight line speed record was set at about 69 km/h, with the same model and engine, 44 years after Max Plan's performance (I remember witnessing unsuccessful earlier attempts by Pierre Marrot in the late 60's with McCoy60 powered "Hustler" delta)
Half an hour later, once we were certain the record was valid, my team's model raised the record to 289km/h (two years later, we did 328km/h, record still standing to this day)
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Old Jun 23, 2009, 12:29 PM
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Interesting to see the exhast on the Micron 5 cc fixed compression is 114 degrees. My measurements of the Drone BB could be off a bit and the one I measured 115 could be 114 degrees. The Drone BB diesels with variable compression heads are more powerful than my GB 5.4 cc and the valkyrie 5.33 cc diesels. There are a lot of Drone BB diesels that show up in the USA. I got one from an old timer that needed work. It is now my best running Drone BB after repairs Jack
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