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Old May 20, 2009, 09:33 AM
Where'd The Wise Men Go?!?
AC5FF's Avatar
United States, NE, Bellevue
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ESC Overheating...

I'm trying to help a buddy get his plane put together and up in the air. He's new to RC and hasn't yet (still pushing) become a member here in RCG...

He picked up an ARF at the LHS and they sold him the suggested motor/esc/prop combo with it. He got the Park300 outrunner, a CC 10A ESC, and a 8x3.8 SF prop. After he got all of this installed he ran up the motor to test it out. The ESC is cutting off power at about 3/4 stick movement. Just two or three times of this and the ESC is nearly too hot to touch. Thinking that he is over-drawing the ESC he then put on a 7x3.5 prop. The ESC does not shut down the motor now, but it is still getting very hot (not quite as hot though - the 8x3.8 got hot enough to melt the velcro glue).

According to EFlite's specs on this motor - Max draw is 9A and the both props are within the recommended range. He is running a 3s1p lipo.

I ment to bring my wattmeter into work w/me, but it slipped my mind. However, because the ESC and Props are within the specs for the motor I'm curious if he may have a bad part someplace...

Any Ideas??
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Old May 20, 2009, 11:06 AM
Air, Ground & Water
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Canada, ON, Rockland
Joined Aug 2008
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8x3.8 prop is the very max you can run on that motor with a 3s lipo. So its normal for it to run hot especialy if you are bench testing, bench test should only be done for a very brief periord as to not over heat the motor BECAUSE of the lack of AIR FLOW on the motor.

If you are noticing the motor running very hot after a normal flight. Then you mite want to check to make sure the timing on you're ESC (if any) is correct for that motor.

Chances are its because you are bench testing and not flying it.
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Old May 20, 2009, 11:25 AM
Watch out for that TREE!
Houston, Tx
Joined Oct 2006
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If he is static testing, he needs to keep it under 30 secs. Static testing pulls more current than flight and provides poorer cooling of components.
Also, if he by chance has the prop on backwards, I believe it pulls more current than if it is on correctly. Those props should be within the limits of the setup, but I can't find any hard numbers for comparison.

John
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Old May 20, 2009, 11:41 AM
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Running 9 Amps thru a 10 Amp ESC is not much of a safety margin, I am not surprised it is getting to hot to handle. Try moving up to a 15-20 Amp ESC and enjoy the comfort of knowing your not on the edge of a shutdown in flight.
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Old May 20, 2009, 11:51 AM
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The only 10 amp ESC that Castle Creations makes is the Phoenix at $60.00

If they sold him this ESC, they ripped him off, because he doesn't need one that expensive. Also, if he is using the Phoenix, does he have it programmed for advanced timing? This will pull more amps from the motor and battery.

If instead, he has the ThunderBird, then they only make that in a 9 amp, and not a 10.

Exactly what ESC does he have, and how is it programmed?

The choice of prop also makes a difference in amp draw. Which make of 8x3.8 did he buy? APC, GWS, etc?

Chuck
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Old May 20, 2009, 12:40 PM
Where'd The Wise Men Go?!?
AC5FF's Avatar
United States, NE, Bellevue
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ESC is definatly the Phoenix and as for programming it is stock - no changes done to programming settings. The prop is not on backwards. And the motor has not been run 10 sec at full throttle ... It cuts off before you get there. The motor itself is not getting hot at all. As for static testing (that's all that has been done) I can understand the airflow cooling issue, but not for the ESC to get this hot this fast...
The prop is a APC 8x3.8 that gets too hot. A GWS 7x3.5 gets it very warm, but no cutoff on the motor

As far as timing being correct for the motor - how do I tell?? I have never been able to figure that one out myself!
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Old May 20, 2009, 12:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AC5FF
ESC is definatly the Phoenix and as for programming it is stock - no changes done to programming settings. The prop is not on backwards. And the motor has not been run 10 sec at full throttle ... It cuts off before you get there. The motor itself is not getting hot at all. As for static testing (that's all that has been done) I can understand the airflow cooling issue, but not for the ESC to get this hot this fast...
The prop is a APC 8x3.8 that gets too hot. A GWS 7x3.5 gets it very warm, but no cutoff on the motor

As far as timing being correct for the motor - how do I tell?? I have never been able to figure that one out myself!
Many ESC's come timed for what's called "mid range" power as the default. Get the manual online for the Phoenix 10 and see how it comes timed. If it's anything other than "low" timing, or "no" timing, get it timed back to no or low.

Advancing timing on an ESC shortens battery life, draws more current through the motor and ESC, and makes everything run hotter.

Personally, I think the Hobby Shop salesman sold him the wrong sized ESC to begin with (since it's limit is too close to the motors amp rating), and in addition, sold him an ESC that he didn't need.

A Castle Creations ThunderBird 18 would have been a perfect ESC, and it could have been used in far more types of planes than the Phoenix 10.

Chuck
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Old May 20, 2009, 01:51 PM
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Mesa, AZ
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how do you determine how many poles your motor has?
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Old May 20, 2009, 02:11 PM
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Hobbypeople has the KMS (Kinetic Motor Systems) 18A ESC on sale for $12.49 right now...Go %&@*! out the LHS salesman and get a refund and use the extra $$ for another battery or something.
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Old May 20, 2009, 02:14 PM
Where'd The Wise Men Go?!?
AC5FF's Avatar
United States, NE, Bellevue
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Just finished messing around with the timing. It is default set at 'mid range'. Set it to low and still had the same problems. Tried a few other settings as well .. startup/etc .. with no changes. I'm at the end of my knowledge rope here; so he is going to run back down to the LHS w/it all in hand and tell em to fix it or return it...
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Old May 20, 2009, 07:12 PM
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Dickinson, Tx.
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The CC-10 is a great ESC and I have ran 2 of them for 4 years with no problems. I would make sure you have the ESC set up so you get air flow over both sides, preferably with prop blast going over it so it gets cooling all the time.

I think the T-birds are a great controller also and am using an TB-18.

I use the CC-10's on a geared inrunner and a small outrunner. I ran the first CC-10 with stock settings on the small outrunner for 2 years (with never a problem except for not giving it good cooling) before updating with the link. I am pulling around 10 amps max. on the outrunner, with the geared inrunner, I am pulling 12 amps max.

Challenger413
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Old May 20, 2009, 07:45 PM
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Castle Creations is the best you can get for an ESC. If you're unsatisfied with it, and you want better quality, good luck my friend!

As for it getting hot, try a test flight. Usually, full throttle isn't used untill you're climbing out, so mid throttle ranges (which normally draw less current) are what would be used for "normal" flying. IMO, I would do a test flight for a couple minutes, and see what the temps are. If anything, just get a KMS18 amp ESC (awesome BTW) and all of your problems will be solved (except for the weight- go with a Thunderbird 18 if you're concerned about that).
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Old May 20, 2009, 08:05 PM
Watch out for that TREE!
Houston, Tx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xpress..
Castle Creations is the best you can get for an ESC. If you're unsatisfied with it, and you want better quality, good luck my friend!

As for it getting hot, try a test flight. Usually, full throttle isn't used untill you're climbing out, so mid throttle ranges (which normally draw less current) are what would be used for "normal" flying. IMO, I would do a test flight for a couple minutes, and see what the temps are. If anything, just get a KMS18 amp ESC (awesome BTW) and all of your problems will be solved (except for the weight- go with a Thunderbird 18 if you're concerned about that).
I can't imagine suggesting to someone to put their plane into the air if it won't run on the workbench. Sure the prop will unload, draw less current, and have superior cooling, but the whole point of testing it on the bench is to avoid any problems in the air. If he's new to flying, I pretty sure he will have problems getting his plane back down in one piece if his esc locks up and the servos rail.

John
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Old May 20, 2009, 08:36 PM
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Dickinson, Tx.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AC5FF
According to EFlite's specs on this motor - Max draw is 9A and the both props are within the recommended range. He is running a 3s1p lipo.

I ment to bring my wattmeter into work w/me, but it slipped my mind. However, because the ESC and Props are within the specs for the motor I'm curious if he may have a bad part someplace...

Any Ideas??
I would amp it out first, then make sure the ESC is getting cooling air flow. It sounds like it isn't getting any airflow. Other than that, the onboard BEC will get hot if there is servos binding...

Challenger413
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Old May 20, 2009, 08:39 PM
Where'd The Wise Men Go?!?
AC5FF's Avatar
United States, NE, Bellevue
Joined Sep 2007
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Agreed John... That's why I am trying to get this all solved before he takes it out...
The motor re-arms right away as soon as you move back to minimum, but again, being new he may not be able to react that fast.

It was a late day today at work. No LHS run today. I may give this one more shot tomorrow before he does go back... I just hate failing to figure this stuff out. I'll be bringing my wattmeter to watch things closely...
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