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Old Jul 03, 2009, 03:48 PM
Lee
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The elevons are sized depending on your prop size. Leave about 10 mm prop clearance on each side of the prop and the elevons are about 50-60 mm deep.
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Old Jul 04, 2009, 03:44 PM
Lee
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USA, UT, Orem
Joined Jul 2004
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More Videos from our club archive.

We used the Queen sound track to Another One Bites the Dust and the first video got censored, so put on the music and watch the video.

We got a warning on the Troggs and "Wild Thing" but so far they left the sound track intact.


Limbo with RC planes (3 min 33 sec)


Slope soaring over Utah County (3 min 12 sec)


Radio control wing in slot canyon at Lake Powell (2 min 44 sec)
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Old Jul 05, 2009, 03:45 AM
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United States, CA, Novato
Joined Sep 2003
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Thanks for a great thread..

I dusted off an old combat glider I built years ago added a motor and started doing battle with the Stykers at the local field. Well, now we have several different wings, T28s, you name it all looking for a little combat fun on the weekends.

I stumbled upon this thread as I was researching what a good suggestion would be for the other pilots that keep asking me what would make a good plane for combat. I am amazed to find that your suggestions are very much the same as mine. Keep it light, quiet and cheap. Speed, weight and brutal strength are of no use in this very fun sport. I'm sure we will be adding some of your planes to the mix at the local field. Heck, I happen to have 3 of those motors sitting on my bench.

We have a couple of other challenges we like to play with during mild combat sessions when we only have 2 or 3 planes up. One is to see how far you can glide off our small hill before you either chicken out and pull some throttle, or hit the ground and have to hike. I like this game as mine is the best glider.

Our other game is simply called "Rabbit". In this game one plane volunteers to be the Rabbit, and all other planes attack. The Rabbit typically flies a very simple and predictable circle pattern and all other planes come in for the attack. The Rabbit is actually the most fun to fly and we have had a steady flow of volunteers for the Rabbit position. Rabbits are often times old planes ready for the dumpster, but can be anything.

I like your balloon idea.. We have been using an old beer can on a short stick. The can makes a great sound when hit. It is fun to put the can in some rough air for added fun.

I'm looking forward to trying some of your games.

Oh yeah, and a big thanks for the suggestion on elevon throws for axial rolls!! I mixed it into my Boomerang today and sure enough she rolls great now. I didn't even know I could adjust the differential on an elevon mix.

-Wayne
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Old Jul 05, 2009, 02:51 PM
Lee
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I updated the game list with more of the chaos that makes combat so fun. I added Wayne's suggestions. Here is the updated list.

Combat games

Fox and Hound The group flies a figure 8 always turning away from the crowd. Those at the front of the pack slow down and those behind try to catch up for the hit. As soon as they are ahead they slow down. You score by making contact. Many times the planes can be flown out of the contact and spins without hitting the ground. You get a "Nudge" if you just bump and a "Hit" if a plane rolls over because of the impact. A varietion of this is a low circle pattern. The circle gives the flyers the ability to cut a corner to catch up or to go wide to slow down.

Streamers on Planes. This is more traditional combat where the planes have streamers out the back. On flying wings we put a streamer on each wingtip and try to cut the streamers in the air. A variation is that one plane has a streamer and so is marked at the target plane and everyone tries to knock them out. In our group that does not mean hit the streamer.

Limbo You can see our limbo poles in the videos but if you look back on some of our older videos you will see us use soccer goals for limbo poles. In limbo you can score however you want. Our most common limbo is won when you are the first to score 10 points. You score 1 point by going under the wire and two with some other factor such as inverted or an even harder lower wire to go under.

Pylon Racing An old favorite but it takes on new meaning when you aren't afraid to collide during the race. We use our Limbo poles as the pylon poles for the races.

Skills Simultaneously everyone will launch, do 3 loops, then 3 rolls and land, and the first with plane in hand first wins. We have even done this with a required catch at the end to win. We have also required 2 catches to win. This is a favorite of some of the flyers. Did I mention that when you realize you are loosing you try to take out the other plane so he can't win either?

Retirement party
This is how we get rid of old planes. It is usually that old warbird or Slowstick or 3D plane that is near the end of it's life and so we euthanize it with the Assassins and other combat style wings. This is also a club favorite. See the video below.

Bomb drop. I have a bomb release on my plane that will be shown in the posts. We set up a target and people drop washers with a streamer on it and score by getting the closest to the target.

Streamer drop - I can carry and drop a roll of crape paper or 1/3 roll of toilet paper and the group tries to chop it up in the air while it is floating down. The big challenge is to get the streamer to land close to the flight line.

Balloon Bust. Take a 1/4" 36" dowel and poke it in the lawn. Tape a balloon to the top. What makes this intense is everyone is trying at the same time to pop the balloon and traffic gets low and heavy. The dowel will knock down easily if hit and rarely hurt an EPP wing.

Parachute drop The parachute drop is great for Scout groups. Each Scout brings a light parachute and they get dropped from the bomb drop 3 at a time. The Assassin can easily carry the weight. The flyer tries to hit a target but the boys don't care if he misses. The Cub Scouts think this is great and love to chase. The boys have spent previous meetings making and coloring their parachutes. This gets fun when you have 3 flyers dropping the parachutes as fast as they can.

Gunfighters Two flyers stand 200+ feet apart and launch at the same time and try to make contact with the planes. Can also be done side by side with first one through the limbo wins.

Wayne has the following game suggestions:


Chicken We have a couple of other challenges we like to play with during mild combat sessions when we only have 2 or 3 planes up. One is to see how far you can glide off our small hill before you either chicken out and pull some throttle, or hit the ground and have to hike. I like this game as mine is the best glider.

Rabbit Our other game is simply called "Rabbit". In this game one plane volunteers to be the Rabbit, and all other planes attack. The Rabbit typically flies a very simple and predictable circle pattern and all other planes come in for the attack. The Rabbit is actually the most fun to fly and we have had a steady flow of volunteers for the Rabbit position. Rabbits are often times old planes ready for the dumpster, but can be anything.

Can on a stick I like your balloon idea.. We have been using an old beer can on a short stick. The can makes a great sound when hit. It is fun to put the can in some rough air for added fun.

Check out the Combat and Limbo videos from the UFO Archives and see what combat has become.


RC flying in Utah County (6 min 6 sec)


2008 RC UnCivil War Limbo and Combat (5 min 9 sec)


Bet you can't hit me (1 min 1 sec)



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Old Jul 06, 2009, 03:28 PM
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Phoenix, AZ
Joined Jan 2008
703 Posts
Vegas Video Editor

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee
........ When I edit with Pinnacle I can quickly cut out problems in seconds as many times as I want in the same video segment. Can the Sony Vegas do that????
Lee, Yes, you can. Just press the "M" key and you've made a cut. If there are 30 frames in a second, you can access all 30 and cut away just the one you don't want. There is a ton of power in this program. For instance, you can smoothly slow down action far better than most other editors because of the way Vegas keeps things looking sharp and clear.

The "movie studio" version is probably the one you want, if you don't want to spend the bucks on the pro version, this version has the power of the pro version as it uses a lot of the same code.

Check it out with this link to Vegas Studio
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Old Jul 07, 2009, 01:06 AM
Lee
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USA, UT, Orem
Joined Jul 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nioa
Lee, Yes, you can. Just press the "M" key and you've made a cut. If there are 30 frames in a second, you can access all 30 and cut away just the one you don't want. There is a ton of power in this program. For instance, you can smoothly slow down action far better than most other editors because of the way Vegas keeps things looking sharp and clear.

The "movie studio" version is probably the one you want, if you don't want to spend the bucks on the pro version, this version has the power of the pro version as it uses a lot of the same code.

Check it out with this link to Vegas Studio
I looked at the link.

Can it also create it's own sound track?

Have you had any driver problems or crashing?
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Old Jul 07, 2009, 01:27 AM
Lee
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USA, UT, Orem
Joined Jul 2004
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NIGHT FLYING

I'm building some more LED light sets so I can fly on these warm summer nights. I thought it might be a good idea to pass along.

These links are to a tutorial for LED wiring I did last year. I copied the information to this post and post #16 at the first of this thread so you can find it later, but for pictures and more information look at the links.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...8&postcount=18

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...2&postcount=17

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=784718

The Pinata and the Assassin are sister planes. The ROSWELL is a 36" delta design I have been playing with for 20 years. This video shows the Pinata and Roswell night flying with Christmas lights. The LEDs I use now are brighter. I need to shoot more night video
.



Nightflying with Pinata flying wing 11-07 (4 min 20 sec)


LED LIGHTING ON AN RC PLANE

Many flyers are building their lights into their planes but often I want a set of LED lights to tape to a plane for that occasional night flight. I don't want to have to commit a receiver, ESC, servos and plane to a plane I fly only occasionally at night. I want the plane to also be able to be flown in the day. I don't fly often at night but want to be ready to go with very little notice.

If you know you are going to be night flying your Assassin, design a color scheme that leaves most of the foam white. The white EPP foam will catch the LED light and really glow in the dark. LED lights will shine clear through the EPP wing adding to the effect.

I wanted a more durable set of LED lights that wouldn't short out and could take some abuse. The sets shown here meet that criteria.

The LED lights are amazingly bright, far brighter than the glow wire, glow tape or glow sticks and probably brighter than Christmas lights at their best. I took them in a 20'x16' family room and they put lights on all 4 walls. These reds and blues are as bright as the whites.

These lights are like a flashlight and can be aimed so you don't have to cover the plane with lights to cover the plane with light. I taped the lights down the center from nose to tail and then back under the center of the plane on the bottom. I then went through the lights and aimed them at the outer wing so they gave maximum light and put a small dab of hot glue from a hot glue gun to keep them pointing in the right direction. They are amazingly effective and are bright enough that I can see the ground on approach which makes landing much easier.

You can color white LEDs with permanent markers to get a desired color. It seems to work for the desired effect if you can't get the color you want.

When you put a resistor on each LED and wire the lights in parallel you may lose one light but the entire set will not fail unless the wire breaks. It's more work but worth the effort. These LEDs come with the resistors anyway.

I bought MEGA BRIGHT RED, WHITE AND BLUE 5 mm lights from the following vendor on Ebay. Because he is on Ebay his prices expire but you can go to his store on Ebay and look at his present listings at:

http://stores.ebay.com/Chi-Wing-LED-product-shop

I bought three colors (white, blue, red) of LEDs of the bright 14k-18k LEDs which are also available at other vendors.

All of the LEDs came from the seller with resistors to run them off 12V. They all look the same color and only show their color when they are on. I marked them with the a permanent marker when I took them out of the packages so I could tell them apart while building.

LEDs have different brightness ratings usually between 3000 and 18000 mcd. Some also have options for different angles of focused light. I'm not an expert in LEDs and so took the advice from a friend and got the lights listed. I also heard the brightness ratings may be misleading because the more focused lights have a higher mcd rating but not produce more light. Many flyers are satisfied with the 5000 mcd lights in their planes.

I set up two configurations for testing. One set has 2 X 60" wires. I built R and L sides and 10 LEDs on each string. I have 4 colored and six white on each side. I used the LEDs listed above. My other set has 4 X 24" strands of 6. All 6 lights in each strand are the same color with one strand of red, one of blue and two of white.

I built my LED light sets with heavier wire to make them more durable. I used 24g speaker wire that has single strand wires. I cut down the wire on the resisters and LEDs and soldered them about 3/8" apart then put heat shrink over the resister and both sides of the wire connections and solder joints on the LEDs. I can roll up the set with the lights on without risk of shorting them out.

All speaker wire is not the same. The solid core or single strand wire is so much easier to work with on this project. The multi strands would sometimes separate and were hard to fix once they came apart. I used the 24 gauge, two conductor solid core clear speaker wire from Radio Shack. One side of the wire is marked with a white line to mark polarity. A smaller gauge wire would do. The heat shrink is a hassle but well worth the effort. These lights can be rolled and twisted together and won't short out.

I put my 30 W soldering iron in a vise to leave my two hands free to make the mini solder joints. It is much easier and faster than holding the soldering iron. I used flux and pre-tinned the leads so I could keep the soldering time and temperature down while working with such small leads on the resistors and the LEDs since both can be ruined with too much heat. I did destroy two of the bulbs I was working with by overheating the wires while soldering. Considering I soldered 48 bulbs and am learning to work with LEDs I thought this wasn't too bad.

It is time consuming but worth the effort to get the sets of lights to lay flat. It is also a good idea to put the power plug in the middle of the light set and have 2 or 4 wires exiting the power plug for easier attachment on the plane.

This is the process

I cut 20 pieces of 5" wire.
I found the polarized mark on the speaker wire
I soldered the marked polarized wires to the red battery lead plug and heatshrinked the connections
I repeated with the ground or black battery wire and the other side of the speaker wires.

At this point I have 2 speaker wire leads out of a plug.

I prepared the all of the LEDs before starting to wire them by:

Bend the LED leads out in opposite directions
identify the flat side of the LED and cut off the other side to about 3/8"
Cut one side of a resistor wire down to 3/8"
poke both wires to be soldered into the flux
Pre-tin the wires by briefly touching them each to the tip of the soldeing iron with a small amount of solder on it
solder the resistor to the LED.

I then would work on one side at a time and I would:

slide on a 3/4" piece of heat shrink tubing
then cut the length of each side of the speaker wire so the LED wires could lay flat.
strip off 1/4" of insulation on each side of the speaker wire.
flux and pre-tin the speaker wire
cut the wires to the desired length on the resistor and LED
flux and pre-tin the wires.
then would solder the resistor side of the LED to the positive or red battery side of the wire
then repeat with the flat side of the LED wire to the black battery lead side of the wire
I would then cut the next 5" wire end lengths so the LED wires would lay flat making sure to maintain polarity
I would then solder it to the next 5" extension of wire and
slide on a 1/2" piece of heat shrink for the flat side connection.
I pushed the 3/4" heat shrink over the resistor and
the 1/2" heat shrink against the flat side of bulb
using a lighter shrink the heat shrink.

Repeat until desired set is built. Last bulb is on the end without an extension wire.

Once I got up to speed I would twist the wires together before soldering the source and extension wires to the resistor and LED ends which was much easier. The most difficult parts are to get the wires the right length and remember to put the heatshrink on the wire before soldering.

As a comparison the 20 Christmas lights as discussed in other posts, that I used in the past, would weigh 1.8 oz and would require 1.4 A and are more fragile so the LEDs outshine them in most ways.

It was a enjoyable project but with all of the soldering and heat shrink it took me 2-3 hours to solder it all up.

Total weight with the plug, 10' of speaker wire, 20 x 5mm LEDs, 20 resistors and 40 pieces of heat shrink is 1.0 oz. The set uses 0.34 A. I am pleased.


Late Note:

Went night flying agiain last night. I am really enjoying the night flying. It's cooler at night even when it's hot in the day and the local ball fields are available after dark.

I have learned that having a complex pattern a colors isn't always good for orientation. On my fist attempt I have red white and blue on both top and bottom. At a distance it is hard to tell the difference although it is obvious close up. After getting slightly disoriented in snap rolls and rainbow rolls I put just red and blue on the top and white on the bottom on the second plane I set up.

I like the white on the bottom because it helps me to see the ground on approach and take off. This plane does not have the obvious plane shape to help with orientation at night. The lights are in a box shape no matter what angle you look at the plane from.

This is still my favorite night flyer and I do wild aerobatics even in the dark which most night flyers won't do because they are more sane than I am.

The worst problems I have had is forgetting to turn off my head lamp when taking off and having a whole flock of moths and bugs in my face while I am trying to both fly the plane and turn off the headlamp.

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Old Jul 07, 2009, 12:45 PM
More Motors, More Fun... :-)
nioa's Avatar
Phoenix, AZ
Joined Jan 2008
703 Posts
Vegas

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee
I looked at the link.

Can it also create it's own sound track?

Have you had any driver problems or crashing?
First a correction ..<I said> "Just press the "M" key and you've made a cut." thats "Just press the "S" key and you've made a cut (split).

I have the pro version, and under Windows XP Pro vegas is ROCK SOLID. I have never had a crash (really). I have optimized my computer for video, and that helps stabilize Windows for video production, it never hurts. The drivers are very well written, as is the entire program. Be sure to use Vegas on a computer that meets its system requirements.

I recommend the Vegas Studio. It is an intuitive program that is very easy to use. What I like most about it is the professional power you get for a very low price. What is nice is that you can download a trial version of the program and try it out for free. There is also a "Platinum Pro Pack" you might be interested in for sound backgrounds, etc.

Try it. It is a worthwhile program and will enable you to produce video's with very professional results.
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Old Jul 07, 2009, 02:25 PM
resU deretsigeR
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Dublin Ca
Joined Aug 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nioa
Paul I think you mean Sony Vegas Video Editing software. I have it and I LOVE it! Very professional level stuff. If you don't need the Pro version, you can save some money and get the "Studio" version. it's the best video editing software out there.

Sony Vegas Link

Yes... Stupid brain wont work some times...

I have been using that for about 6 years now.. and upgrade when needed not when a new version comes out.. work has been keeping me current though...

yes you can do your own audio track it plays well with DVD Architect and Sound Forge and you can have multiple sound tracks that you can select in a dvd compilation..

Truly a powerful suite of software
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Old Jul 07, 2009, 06:54 PM
Newbie
Bailey CO
Joined Mar 2009
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Have any of you guys tried a light sanding of the tape to make the paint stick better? We were thinking of trying that out - don't think it will decrease performance at all.

I love vegas, very reasonably priced and powerful software.
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Old Jul 08, 2009, 12:00 PM
Lee
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USA, UT, Orem
Joined Jul 2004
9,332 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by hobgood
Have any of you guys tried a light sanding of the tape to make the paint stick better? We were thinking of trying that out - don't think it will decrease performance at all.

I love vegas, very reasonably priced and powerful software.
I'm curious about sanding the tape. It sounds like a good idea but there is another reason that I use the 3M90 or the 3M77 primer and that is to improve the color of the paint on the exposed EPP. If you look at the pictures of the stenciled dragon there is a big difference in the test between the treated and untreated EPP.

I wish I could try all of the video editing programs to see which I like the best. I am still planning on at least trying another editor. I noticed that the Sony Vegas also has add on music packs that cost more money. That is one of the complaints I have with Pinnacle. There is an extra charge for too many of the options. How does the music sound score work and how many songs does it come with?

Pinnacle will do more than I make it do but with the number of videos I post I keep them simple and short. I don't usually use the transitions between shots due to the small size of the plane and the time the transitions take although Pinnacle has a wide variety of transitions.
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Old Jul 08, 2009, 12:39 PM
n00b
Littleton, Colorado
Joined Jul 2009
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Hi Lee, I'm one of Ben Hobgood's friends and am just getting my wing finished up. Thanks for all your info and making the wings available! Had a bit of a tape debacle last night, doing the leading edge piece and part of the tape stuck to itself, I tried to pull it back and it pulled up some of the top/bottom side tape, had to pull it all off and start over. Good times, good times.

The question I had was if anyone has experience using Krylon from a spray can directly to the foam/tape after 3M90, rather than acrylic airbrush on the wing, rather than using the iron on laminate first and then Krylon.
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Old Jul 08, 2009, 06:15 PM
Lee
PERFECT LANDING !!!
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USA, UT, Orem
Joined Jul 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sledder
Hi Lee, I'm one of Ben Hobgood's friends and am just getting my wing finished up. Thanks for all your info and making the wings available! Had a bit of a tape debacle last night, doing the leading edge piece and part of the tape stuck to itself, I tried to pull it back and it pulled up some of the top/bottom side tape, had to pull it all off and start over. Good times, good times.

The question I had was if anyone has experience using Krylon from a spray can directly to the foam/tape after 3M90, rather than acrylic airbrush on the wing, rather than using the iron on laminate first and then Krylon.
I have used the Krylon H2O paint on EPP for years without any spray adhesive. Look at the Peregrine thread. Those planes are painted with a Krylon paint that isn't water based but they did have the spray adhesive under the paint. I think I have some pictures in the Roswell thread of the H20 paint on EPP without a primer. The EPP will take more kinds of paint than the white bead foam. There are a few paints that will still eat the EPP foam so test in an inconspicuous area like on the foam tips you cut off to see it the paint is going to work.
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Old Jul 10, 2009, 08:15 AM
Lee
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I'm getting more questions about programing the DX6i. I have some information in post #9 but here is another attempt at clarification:

In the Set up menu:

*Set the memory for the model and choose a name
*Go into Wing/Tail mix and activate Elevon.

In the Adjust list:

*Go into travel adjust and turn the right and left elevons and the up and down elevator to 125% travel. Each of the four has to be adjusted separately.

*At this point the servos should be plugged into the Aileron and Elevator plugs on your receiver and the ESC plugged into the Throttle.

*Install the control rods from the servo arms to the elevon horns.

*After binding both servos should move when you move the right stick either up and down or back and forth. This is the mixer working. If you turn the elevon mixer off only one servo will move at a time.

*The trick now is to get the servos turning the right direction. Try different combination of the servo reversing of the elevator and aileron on the transmitter until the servos are turning the right direction. If it won't work trade the plugs for the aileron and elevator servos in the receiver and try the servo reversing again until you get it right.

The up and down set up seems backwards to my wife. She wants to push up on the stick to make the plane go up. Here is the way the rest of us do it.

Pull back (or push the stick towards the bottom of the Tx) on R tx stick, both elevons go up.
Push R Tx stick forward (or towards the top of the transmitter) and both elevons go down.
Push R Tx stick to the right, right elevon goes up left goes down.
Push R Tx stick to L and L elevon comes up and R elevon goes down.


*I tend to have a large amount of movement in the elevons. Most of the new flyers use about half what I use. I have expo built into my brain and can be real gentle on the sticks.

*I recommend that new flyers set up dual rates and or expo for their first flights. If your radio is set to 125% on the throws set the dual rate or expo to about 70%.

*If you are a new flyer I recommend you spend a little time with a simulator before flying. You can find a list of simulators that we have found in my blog by clicking on my Wyle Coyote avatar. I also recommend you have a qualified trainer with you if you can. Let them fly your plane the first time and get it trimmed. I destroyed seven planes learning to fly. Let's try to get you flying well with your first one.

*The most important part of the first flight is the ground check. Make sure you have everything set up right so there is no slop in the linkages from the servos to the elevons and that the elevons are moving in the right directions.

*Practice flipping on the dual rates and trimming without looking at the radio. Looking away from the plane to the transmitter to find a switch or the trim can be fatal.

Good luck.
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Old Jul 10, 2009, 10:15 AM
Heli Humbled Daily
Riverside, CA
Joined Jul 2006
2,973 Posts
New Assassin born!

Another tip worth mentioning for all radios is that if you seem to have the upward/downward movement correct, but left/right is reversed, then the solution is to unplug the servos from the receiver and SWAP the ports they are plugged into.

My father-in-laws Assassin was officially birthed yesterday, but it took me a lock of brain wracking to realize that the servos just needed to be swapped!
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