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Old May 11, 2012, 09:29 PM
Flight Enthusiast
Ferndale WA
Joined Dec 2006
137 Posts
Thanks guys for all of your helpful suggestions. I have started the detective work. I took the prop off and ran the motor on my build table. I had it quit maybe 10 times in one half hour. Sometimes I would give it some throttle (with Tx on a different table) and before I could get to the build table 7' away, it had quit.
I have tried jiggling wires and electronic parts and I have yet to find a definite cause. But I will keep at it and I have an identical ESC and RX to use for my process of elimination.

The servos are HS82MG by Hitec.
If there was a problem in the motor and it quit, the servos should still work right? If that happened I would have still had steering control during the trip to terra firma after the prop had stopped.
I don't believe that is what is happening, but I just wanted to know.

Once when it had quit I pushed down on the foam near the Rx and the motor started again momentarily. The throttle was still on a little and this happened just after it had quit. I have the Rx out of the foam now but I have not successfully found a loose connection.

Each time after it quits, when I open the battery to ESC connection and then connect it again it is ready to go. But without doing that reconnection it does not do a reconnection by itself.

I'll keep working on it. Thanks again. I put all of your comments on a two page list to work from during this process.
Cheers,
David
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Old May 12, 2012, 02:42 AM
can't buy vaporware
7oneWo1f's Avatar
United States, MN, Minneapolis
Joined Nov 2011
8,484 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whomprat View Post
I've run all my rewinds on a 30a esc. We had one setup on a 25A eflite and it caught on fire at SEFF, so if you want to be safe, you can grab a 40A, or go easy at full battery charge. I tend to not to WOT until a minute or so into the flight.

My wattmeter says 36 amps on a fresh battery, so it probably stays until 30 in the air.
I think the ESC would get less hot WOT with a new battery. The FETs get hotter when they're switching, and the ESC is switching more when you're not WOT. I have to get around to testing this theory with a scope, current probe, and thermometer. But that's the theory.
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Old May 12, 2012, 10:10 AM
Registered User
Joined Jul 2010
208 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferndale Flyer View Post
Thanks guys for all of your helpful suggestions. I have started the detective work.

Each time after it quits, when I open the battery to ESC connection and then connect it again it is ready to go. But without doing that reconnection it does not do a reconnection by itself.

David
If it does the same with 2 batts then its a dud ESC or ESC socket. Cut it off and solder a new socket or switch ESCs?
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Old May 12, 2012, 11:15 PM
Planes in flames,,,
jetpackninja's Avatar
Gravity Sucks
Joined Aug 2010
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My money is on the receiver...
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Old May 13, 2012, 02:13 AM
Big Jim
RTF Thumper's Avatar
United States, ID, Mountain Home
Joined Jun 2011
2,958 Posts
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Originally Posted by jetpackninja View Post
My money is on the receiver...
+1 on that
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Old May 13, 2012, 02:23 AM
Registered User
Eugene, Oregon
Joined Feb 2011
610 Posts
Me too!
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Old May 13, 2012, 03:01 AM
can't buy vaporware
7oneWo1f's Avatar
United States, MN, Minneapolis
Joined Nov 2011
8,484 Posts
My son ran about 8 batteries through the widowmaker today, and was doing sub 1' off the deck passes. He's starting to love this plane too.
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Old May 13, 2012, 11:37 AM
Flight Enthusiast
Ferndale WA
Joined Dec 2006
137 Posts
Success!

Hi guys,
I had not had much luck finding a loose connection or a bad solder joint. I used to work in electronics so solder joints are a focus for me.
Then I got a message from Bombay and he reminded me about switching the motor timing up from Low to Medium or High. Yesterday I switched it to Medium and it was no different. It took less than a minute to quit. Then I was busy and did not have the time to try switching it to High.
Today I switched the timing to High and cut back my throws a little using the dual rate function. I set the timer to 7 minutes and after one false start (trying to launch from holding the wing tip) I flew the Assassin for 6 1/2 minutes non-stop and no problems!
I then put on a 1000 mah second battery (and a little lead to adjust for the weight difference between the 1300 mah and the 1000 mah) and flew it for 3 1/2 minutes with no problems.
Before it was the 2 1/2 minute mark that was the quit point so the problem may be solved. I was flying before and today at a low throttle level so if the ESC had a thermal cutoff due to the FET's having to work harder maybe the motor timing solved it.
After switching to High motor timing the throttle engaged the prop right away off of the bottom of the stick travel where before there was a small amount of stick travel that did not get the prop moving.
Rob also mentioned that a lot of you use Gens Ace 1300 mah lipos so yesterday I ordered a few more of those. Now I will have 5 batteries to use that are all the right weight and I will finally get some real stick time in.
Thanks Rob and all of you for all of your comments. I am lucky to have so many friends in this great hobby.
Cheers,
David
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Old May 13, 2012, 01:09 PM
Slow Flyer
Bombay's Avatar
Richmond, TX
Joined Apr 2008
3,236 Posts
Hi David:
I am glad that appears to have worked for you. If you experience those probs again, I would switch ESCs. I have had great success with the programmable hobbyking supersimple 25/30's with the Assassin. Get the program card. On occasion, some escs work great with certain motors, and not so good on other motors. Alot of it has to do with the timing setting on the esc, but also the switching frequency of the ESC.

Here is a throttle calibration tutorial that someone posted some time ago. It is a good idea to calibrate your throttle on all ESCs.
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Old May 13, 2012, 03:38 PM
Planes in flames,,,
jetpackninja's Avatar
Gravity Sucks
Joined Aug 2010
3,571 Posts
Can't argue with success!
Awesome. I would have never though timing would have caused a shutdown.
Good thinking Bombay.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferndale Flyer View Post
Hi guys,
I had not had much luck finding a loose connection or a bad solder joint. I used to work in electronics so solder joints are a focus for me.
Then I got a message from Bombay and he reminded me about switching the motor timing up from Low to Medium or High. Yesterday I switched it to Medium and it was no different. It took less than a minute to quit. Then I was busy and did not have the time to try switching it to High.
Today I switched the timing to High and cut back my throws a little using the dual rate function. I set the timer to 7 minutes and after one false start (trying to launch from holding the wing tip) I flew the Assassin for 6 1/2 minutes non-stop and no problems!
I then put on a 1000 mah second battery (and a little lead to adjust for the weight difference between the 1300 mah and the 1000 mah) and flew it for 3 1/2 minutes with no problems.
Before it was the 2 1/2 minute mark that was the quit point so the problem may be solved. I was flying before and today at a low throttle level so if the ESC had a thermal cutoff due to the FET's having to work harder maybe the motor timing solved it.
After switching to High motor timing the throttle engaged the prop right away off of the bottom of the stick travel where before there was a small amount of stick travel that did not get the prop moving.
Rob also mentioned that a lot of you use Gens Ace 1300 mah lipos so yesterday I ordered a few more of those. Now I will have 5 batteries to use that are all the right weight and I will finally get some real stick time in.
Thanks Rob and all of you for all of your comments. I am lucky to have so many friends in this great hobby.
Cheers,
David
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Old May 13, 2012, 09:55 PM
Registered User
Joined Jun 2009
391 Posts
Interesting

Quote:
Originally Posted by jetpackninja View Post
Can't argue with success!
Awesome. I would have never though timing would have caused a shutdown.
Good thinking Bombay.
That's a great ending to your problem, beining able to see this to the end was educational. I had a blank part on the throttle and a reset of the ESC took care of it too.
Always learning something in this hobby, especially here where everyone helps so much.
ESC's, complicated little bugers.
Cheers indeed mate.
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Old May 13, 2012, 11:48 PM
wheeeeee!
elCapitan's Avatar
United States, UT, Provo
Joined Oct 2011
916 Posts
Hey, FerndaleFlyer (and anyone else in the area), I'm visiting family on Camano Island, and want to come up to Bellingham Mon or Tue, since I grew up there. I happened to bring an Assassin and a Widowmaker. Any chance any of you guys are available to fly sometime
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Old May 13, 2012, 11:54 PM
Flight Enthusiast
Ferndale WA
Joined Dec 2006
137 Posts
It happened again

I went to fly this evening and it happened again.
1300 mah battery, 2 min and 45 seconds into the first flight it quit and fell to the ground.
I picked it up and carried it back to where I stand. I recorded the time and rebooted the system with the same battery. I was thinking it was acting like something was heating up and had a thermal cutout system that was causing the problem. I was hoping that the few minutes of walking back and writing the time down would let it cool enough. This time I flew it 4 minutes and 20 seconds with no problems. (I had set the timer for the second flight on the same battery at 4 minutes) When I got back home the battery read 11.71v and the charger said that the battery was at a 62% charge when I started recharging it.

I have an identical ESC and Rx to try. Unfortunately those identical parts were on another plane and it did the same thing one time. I haven't fixed that trainer plane yet because I've been flying the Assassin, but the trainer did the same thing. It just quit during a flight. I can't remember how long it flew before it quit. Anyway I'll replace them one part at a time and do some in flight testing.
Thanks,
David
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Old May 14, 2012, 12:06 AM
Flight Enthusiast
Ferndale WA
Joined Dec 2006
137 Posts
Flying in Bellingham area

El Capitan, I sent you a PM.
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Old May 14, 2012, 12:32 AM
Planes in flames,,,
jetpackninja's Avatar
Gravity Sucks
Joined Aug 2010
3,571 Posts
My money is back on the receiver
Happy hunting.
Do you fly Spektrum?
If so I'd pick up one of the 6 dollar Orange receivers and swap it out...
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