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Old Jul 07, 2001, 08:14 PM
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Steve McBride's Avatar
Agra, Oklahoma
Joined Feb 2000
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Mini Laser 3D Part II

The other thread was getting a bit long soo.....

OK fellas, had a couple of flights on my ML3D just now with AF 010 brushless direct, APC 5.7x3 and 10 AAA NiMH cells. I have a solution to one problem and a new one come up.

The first is the landing gear. My first flight folded the gear back slightly, breaking some balsa. What I did was save the balsa "triangles" left over from the fuselage and other sheets in the kit. Take two of equal size, I think the largest will work best, and use them as braces between the gear legs and the bottom of the fuselage/wing former (battery box in all reality). Cover them or not - it's up to you. For my tests I simply scotch taped them in place. Now I had 2 rather hard landings on very rough ground and the gear legs could not be happier This is a mod that I would highly recommend to anyone with the stock LG.

No for the other problem - my elevator sticks. Turning on final and cutting power, the elevator would stick in the up position and when I would apply down it would stick slightly down. This made possible the rough landing tests explained above Not a biggie though, just need to rehinge and leave more gap.

I tell you guys, after only a very few flights, I am liking this model more and more.

I have the hacker B20-12L and MP Jet 4:1 gearbox ready to go with APC 9x4.5E prop, Jeti 18 ESC and 8x600AE cells. This combo pulls rather hard but is a bit difficult to mount. I have cut the firewall so the motor can extend back though it and help in the cooling of the Jeti. Should have a mount soon. I am estimating that this should produce almost 20 ounces of thrust. Anyone want to run the numbers for me?

The 010 direct certainly powered the little laser around but is lacking in the static thrust department.

Have a good one guys!

Steve McBride
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Old Jul 07, 2001, 11:34 PM
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OH goodie! A new thread on motors! Well this is appropriate since I fried the brushes on the motor in mine today. It was the stock speed 300 motor. Just couldn't handle the current I guess. Only lasted about 6 flights. Looking at other options now.
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Old Jul 08, 2001, 01:37 AM
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UTAH, SLC
Joined Mar 2001
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i just finished mine and am going to test fly it tomorrow. i have decided to just try
the stock motor on 10 cells.

has anyone ran the geared 010 with 10 cells
i would like to know, i have thought about buying one for this plane. i went through the origanl thread and only one person has tried it but no results on 10 cells
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Old Jul 08, 2001, 04:00 AM
I broke it
David Hogue's Avatar
USA, NC, Clayton
Joined Feb 2001
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Exo,

Look at Gerald's comments above...the stock motor ain't gonna take ten cells, he fried his on eight...unless you prop much smaller, and even then I don't think it will last. Gerald, I got a 300 if you want it...trade ya it for that 5:1 Gb you got lying around, hehe!! I guess I could swing by Leesville on my way to work tomorrow...call me around 2-3 if you want it...I'll come by there.

Later,
David
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Old Jul 08, 2001, 11:24 AM
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Clayton's Avatar
Jackson Hole, Wyoming
Joined Feb 2001
574 Posts
I have run the 010 geared with 10 cells. I was using a APC 9x4.7. It performed well but the duration suffered, though it was windy so I can't really tell. So far the best performance comes from the 010 geared with 9x6 prop on 9x600 cells. Fast and furious.

I'd like to try the APC 9x6 on 10 cells. Maybe someone could run the math for me. I don't want to exceed the manufacture suggested limit of 6 amps. Someone tell me would this exceed it?

I would try it with a reply but I broke my prop yesterday after the mindless pilot in me decided to go for one more flight on what sounded like a depleted pack. And I always tell myself, a good pilot knows when to quit.
Now if I could get myself to listen.
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Old Jul 08, 2001, 11:34 AM
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It (the speed 300 failure) might have been the combination of high rpm with the high current. Motocalc is showing 40,000 rpm at full speed with this setup. Also when I examined what was left of the brushes (only one was still there), it seemed that it was a smaller sized brush than I remember for a speed 300. It appears to be only about 1.75mm wide. Is this normal for a speed 300?

I liked the power it had for a short while but I can see that there is no way to maintain that level with a 300 motor. It's up against both rpm and current limits. I was pushing over 70watts into it. That's speed400 territory. A 280BB might do the job for a little longer because of its bigger replaceable brushes but that's still a little too much for it.

[This message has been edited by Gerald (edited 07-08-2001).]
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Old Jul 08, 2001, 11:38 AM
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Clayton, with 9x6 on 10 cells you'll be at about 6 Amps, 6800rpm, and 16oz thrust. That's with the 14T motor at 3.3:1.
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Old Jul 08, 2001, 11:46 AM
Radix malorum est cupiditas
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Joined Jul 2000
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Clayton:

Astro 010 14T 3.33:1 (factory geared ver)
10X600, 9X6 = 5.5A , 13.9oz @ 39mph

do you have the 801G as above?
if not, what gear ratio?

std motor, same gear:

Astro 010 16T 3.33:1
10X600, 9X6 = 3.7A , 10.8oz @ 34.5mph
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Old Jul 08, 2001, 06:58 PM
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UTAH, SLC
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i got about 5 flights on the stock motor setup today with 10 nihm 720s. it was a bit windy but in the hands of a good pilot it flew great... snap rolls ect. no knif edges not enough speed ( dont think that the nickel metals could supply the power it needed.) i think that im going to try a speed 400 geared that extra weight will help with getting the cg forward a little.
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Old Jul 08, 2001, 07:28 PM
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Jackson Hole, Wyoming
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Ok, let me get this straight. I have an astro 010 geared from factory. The 14t I guess. So ten cells 9x6 right at 6.0 amps? Not a .1 amp above? Sounds great! I think i'll try it, as soon as my new props come.

Now, secondly let me get this straight. If I have the 010 16t, which I do, and I get the astro gearbox I will have only 10.7 oz of thrust? What would you have to do increase the cell mah's? And how high could you go?

What I am thinking is that maybe I should get another laser and get another gearbox to put on my Mighty Micro 16t. What can I say? I just love the mini laser.

To exowatt: I found that my cg was too far back with putting the receiver in the recommended location. I moved it so that it was just barely in front of the canopy. This required removing a little balsa to fit the 555.
If your serious about the 400 , let us know the results.
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Old Jul 08, 2001, 07:49 PM
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UTAH, SLC
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i just flew the stock motor on 8 600ae cells
and what a joke it barly left the ground..
i think 10 would work better ill try it tomorrow. (have to build a pack)

im going to order my geared 400 and prop tonight any suggestions on what ratio i should try and prop ? i was thinking 3:1 with the 8x4 prop ? and while im at it ill
try the good old combonation direct drive gunther if itll fly a heavy zagi itll fly this little plane...
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Old Jul 08, 2001, 09:09 PM
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here is a quick look at my awesome web design

ha ha ha
http://www.geocities.com/exowatt/RC_...l?994644383340
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Old Jul 08, 2001, 09:22 PM
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Agra, Oklahoma
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If you are outperforming 8x600 AE cells on 10x720AAA NiMH cells then you have problems with the 600AE cells! On 10 AAA NiMH cells you are probably dropping more than 1/2 the voltage and may get very few cycles on the pack before a battery dies.

Clayton - also consider that the 6amp figure is probably static - will drop as the prop unloads. If you are concerned about it enough, opt for the Jeti 18A ESC. Not much heavier.

On the stock 16T motor, you sould need to prop a bit more to get the current and power up. Say a 10x6. You'll soon be out of ground clearance though

No flights today for me - car maintenance and too much wind.

Also, the last flight of the evening yesterday was a very rough landing and I managed to damage the battery tray 'lip' slightly where the balsa braces fit against. I'll cut a new lip from thin lite ply so the balsa triangle LG braces will have something substantial to fit against. If I manage a CF composite gear set, I'll have to cover the LG mount with lite ply anyway. I may start on a fiberglass LG tonight to get the design correct. Anybody interested in a set?

I'll also be re-configuring a few 10x700AAA NiMH packs to get more weight up front for the 010. Of course I'll have to stick with 600AE cells on the Hacker brushless at the 12+ amps I'll be pulling

Have a good one guys!

Steve
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Old Jul 08, 2001, 10:09 PM
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Jackson Hole, Wyoming
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Steve-
You bet i'm interested in a set. I'll pay. Er i mean I'll pay as long as I don't have to take out another mortgage to get them. I'll take two. In case I buy another plane.

Also I made a new battery lid. Basically I cut it so that it was the size of the whole bottom tray. I velcro it and screw in a nylon screw tords the rear. It threads into a brass t-nut. Both made by dubro try your LHS if you think this will work. For ten cells I have to use rubber bands to hold the battery in.

Also thanks, as a matter of luck I have a Jeti 18, yahoo. But I may just run it with the ten cells on the astro esc and see how it works.

Exowatt, how about a 9x6 on the 400 geared. Somebody run the figures? Would this work?
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Old Jul 09, 2001, 09:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by exowatt:
i just flew the stock motor on 8 600ae cells
and what a joke it barly left the ground..
i think 10 would work better ill try it tomorrow. (have to build a pack)
Or maybe your motor is already starting to go. Mine was fantastic on the first flight with 8 600AEs but began to get more sluggish over the last few flights until it finally quit.

I just tried replacing the 300 motor with another slightly used spare and tested it on the bench. It burned the brushes before finishing one cycle on a freshly charged 720AAA NiMH Sanyo 8 cell pack. The design of the stock gearbox totally blocks all the motor vent holes which is probably letting the motor overheat.

I'm replacing it this time with a Permax 280BB motor. It's gone into a Graupner 3:1 FG3 gearbox. Just need to make up the beam motor mounts.
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